* Kansas City = Conflicted * (Washington, Valley Park, Memphis: crime, neighborhood, theatre)

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by kcmo

But despite its non-urban location, Swope Park is a good park that could and should be a recreational destination for all of metro KC. Instead people avoid it (like they do with most parks in KC) and so for that reason, the park is mostly a bunch of land with a zoo and amphitheater.

When I was a kid, Swope Park was a nice place to go. Things have changed. It's in the middle of a high crime area. A few years ago you were always hearing about bodies found at Swope Park, and that certainly did nothing to help its image.

Wish I could have seen Swope Park back in its early days, when there was no air conditioning and hundreds of people gathered and slept in the park on hot summer nights.

About other parks in urban KCMO, some are just not safe. I know of someone who fell asleep at a park in the middle of the afternoon and awakened being beaten and robbed. He lost a tooth in the ordeal. He had a backpack and wallet, and the four people assaulting him took both.

[TabulaRasa]

^^

I feel like anecdotal observations lead to implied generalizations that are not necessarily accurate.

I know a woman who was sexually assaulted in Shawnee Mission Park. My car got vandalized at Antioch Park. Those anecdotes don't mean that Shawnee Mission Park or Antioch Park (or Johnson County) are unsafe. You spend time in areas with a significant population, your odds of coming into contact with people who perpetrate crimes are significantly higher, no matter where you are.

I wouldn't anymore say, "Steer clear of parks in Johnson Co., KS! They're not safe! I know somebody who got assaulted there!" Than I would say, "Steer clear of parks in KCMO! They're not safe! I know somebody who got assaulted there!" Such things happen.

[shindig]

Very well said TabulaRasa. BTW, luzianne, since living in the Kansas City metro area (both KS and MO sides), I have had my car vandalized twice in 15 years....both times were in Johnson County.

[luzianne]

The truth is, there is more crime in KCMO than in Johnson County. The truth is, Swope Park is in a very bad area. There is a LOT of crime in the area. Nowhere in Johnson County even begins to compare to that. Deny it all you want, but it's the truth. Look at a crime map, and you see where most of the violent crime is concentrated.

And yep, there has been some crime at Oak Park recently. They arrested someone yesterday or the day before for an armed robbery at Oak Park. The person arrested was a Kansas City, Missouri resident.

And I didn't even bring up Johnson County. I just said that Swope Park is in a high crime area (very true) and that a lot of parks in KCMO are not safe (also very true). If you want to take issue with two statements of fact, I don't know what to tell you.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by luzianne

When I was a kid, Swope Park was a nice place to go. Things have changed. It's in the middle of a high crime area. A few years ago you were always hearing about bodies found at Swope Park, and that certainly did nothing to help its image.

Wish I could have seen Swope Park back in its early days, when there was no air conditioning and hundreds of people gathered and slept in the park on hot summer nights.

About other parks in urban KCMO, some are just not safe. I know of someone who fell asleep at a park in the middle of the afternoon and awakened being beaten and robbed. He lost a tooth in the ordeal. He had a backpack and wallet, and the four people assaulting him took both.

Not only did I frequent Swope Park often with my young kids for everything from mountain biking to the zoo to festivals, but I worked directly across from Swope Park for years when burns and mcdonnell was headquartered there. This was during the time when gang crime in KC was much worse than it is now. I used to go there for lunch or to take walks. Our buildings were surrounded by giant totally unsecured surface parking lots. They didn't even have security guards, or very few if they did.

This was a campus that had well over 1000 employees. The entire time I worked there, I NEVER heard one single bad thing about Swope Park or incidents of people getting mugged while jogging, raped while napping in their car etc. I never even heard of any problems with cars being broken into or stolen even though we were supposedly surrounded by "ghetto". It was FINE. The ONLY problem with that location was that it was totally residential and you had to drive into Raytown for any sort of fast food for lunch, although there were some great sit down places in "the ghetto" on roads like scary Paseo that we went to all the time for mexican, bbq etc.

You know where I heard about all the problems about Swope Park? The news and suburban residents that rarely when there and barley knew hot to get around the park when they did go.

Swope Park is huge. It has a lot of forested areas that are out of site. So sure, there may have been a body found in the park a time or two. Just like there have been bodies found in probably every park in metro KC over the years. Because of the ruggedness and the shear size of Swope Park, this happens. It has also happens in suburban parks, in busy urban parks etc. Other than the park having a short run of being a hangout for urban youth and problems arising from that (something that all large cities have to deal with), Swope Park has never been a dangerous place to visit.

Having lived in KC for a very long time and parking hundreds or thousands of times in areas that people like you would barely drive through, I have never had a problem. Ever. I'm not even very careful. I tend to leave my car unlocked or windows down a lot. In my time living in KC, my car was broken into twice. Once was in Lenexa and considering I spent about .00005% of my life in Lenexa vs KCMO, don't you think that's pretty bad? The other time was in Independence when my car was broken into while being kept overnight at body shop. All the other thousands of times parking in Waldo, Brookside, Hyde Park, Swope Park area, you name it. Nothing. Wouldn't those stats be a bit more scary to you? I'm not saying crime doesn't happen. I know it does. But it's just not like you and many others make it out to be.

Nearly all crime in almost any city is crime of opportunity. There is very little random violent crime in most areas of KCMO. Swope Park is NOT 27th and Prospect.

Check out this park in Philly:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ph...f514d88c3e58c1

Every time I am there, it's full of PEOPLE. Biking, running on the many miles of trails, kayaking in the river. Yet it's blocks from areas of philly that would make people in JoCo wet their pants. It's also close to some nice areas as well (or what I think is nice urban areas). I'm sure lots of things have happened in that park, but compared to how many use it every day. It's probably as safe as any park.

Here in DC and baltimore, people have been mugged in urban parks or even killed. But the parks are so heavily used that it's just a statistic that's not any worse than getting mugged anywhere and it only gets people worked up to go the parks more so the thugs don't take them over and it works. Park in Baltimore are always full of people. In DC there is a new bike trail that runs through the NE side of the city that has had some problems with people getting knocked of their bikes and mugged. People commuting and biking on that trail fought back and continue to use the park probably more now then before. At the same time, there have been more rapes etc happening in suburban trails in Northern Virginia than I have heard happening on that trail in NE DC.

I'm telling you, Swope Park is fine and it's sad that people all across metro KC don't utilize it, because it could be a wonderful and vibrant park in a city that really lacks such public spaces.

[luzianne]

I came back to say I DID go to Swope Park in the 80s; we played softball there. It's different now.

WHY do you think people don't use Swope Park, kcmo? It's because it's in the middle of a really bad crime area. And yes, there are a lot of people at the park, but I wouldn't say they were necessarily good people. Lots of times there are a lot of thugs hanging out.

I still go to Starlight. I don't hang out in the park, though.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by luzianne

I came back to say I DID go to Swope Park in the 80s; we played softball there. It's different now.

WHY do you think people don't use Swope Park, kcmo? It's because it's in the middle of a really bad crime area. And yes, there are a lot of people at the park, but I wouldn't say they were necessarily good people. Lots of times there are a lot of thugs hanging out.

I still go to Starlight. I don't hang out in the park, though.

Like I said, Swope Park is not dangerous and the area around it isn't either, not that it really matters.

And Swope Park has never been a busy vibrant park outside the zoo and theater parking lots. I'm starting to think that people in KC don't know what a truly utilized and busy urban park is even like. Again, there is almost no urban recreational scene in KC compared to almost any major metro area and there never has been at least that I can recall.

[kcmo]

People in the KC area think all the big east coast cities are nothing but concrete and traffic when in reality, the amount of recreation, utilized green space etc is off the charts compared to spread out KC that actually is supposed to have all kinds of "space". In places like DC, Philly, NYC and Boston, there are very nice parks and park infrastructure EVERYWHERE and these areas are all EXTREMELY popular and well used. DC alone has hundreds of miles of off street and on street trails. The trails are so busy that the bicycle counts are often as high as nearby roads during peak hours. DC has thousands of acres of parkland and green space that is USED. I honestly can not even explain just how much there is to do in the big metro areas out here if you like being outside. There simply is no comparison to KC. You can literally step off a city street into incredible greenways that run along river, bluffs etc. Miles and miles of trails with hundreds of people using them. People renting kayaks, biking, jogging etc. Roads are closed off on weekends and turned into cycle only roads. This stuff crisscross the city and metro. Take the best day at Shawnee Mission Park and Mill Creek Park and combine them and times it by a million. That's how much better the urban recreational scene is in places like DC and Boston compared to KC.

I started to look for pics of these places and it's just too much to even post because no matter how many pics I post, it wouldn't even scratch the surface of the amount and kinds of recreation people have in the big cities out here.

And places like Cleveland and Pittsburgh blow KC out of the water too, even though they don't have quite a much as DC, Boston etc.

And new cities like Austin and Denver and Portland are? Again, no comparison.

Just saying. Swope Park is joke because few in KC care or want what I'm talking about. That's honestly all I can think of. I don't get why KC is so lacking in this area. Even places like Tulsa, Omaha, Memphis and Des Moines make KC look silly in this area of quality of life. I'll talk up KC's positives all day long, but recreation is one area where KC is failing pretty bad and ignoring Swope Park is just an example of that.

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by kcmo

And Swope Park has never been a busy vibrant park outside the zoo and theater parking lots. I'm starting to think that people in KC don't know what a truly utilized and busy urban park is even like. Again, there is almost no urban recreational scene in KC compared to almost any major metro area and there never has been at least that I can recall.

Originally Posted by kcmo

Just saying. Swope Park is joke because few in KC care or want what I'm talking about. That's honestly all I can think of. I don't get why KC is so lacking in this area. Even places like Tulsa, Omaha, Memphis and Des Moines make KC look silly in this area of quality of life. I'll talk up KC's positives all day long, but recreation is one area where KC is failing pretty bad and ignoring Swope Park is just an example of that.

It's a good thing you live someplace so superior to KC then, huh?

[luzianne]

Found this old thread about Swope Park (link below) and both TabulaRasa and kcmo admitted they wouldn't feel safe there after dark.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/kansa...dangerous.html