Getting specifics after a job offer (applying, average, interviewed, application)
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Background: I've been offered a job by two separate companies (engineering). Both did not go into any specifics besides that they were "competitive" with salary, and had health benefits and profit sharing (one had 401(k) as well). I did not feel the need to start trying to ask or negotiate these topics right after the job offers, but I did expect them to contact me before now to start potentially in May.
With the company I am leaning towards, I have been in contact with them since August 2007. I interviewed in October, got an offer in November, and have been in touch back and forth a bit but they haven't gotten more specific. The ball is in their court right now as I called them last to check in. I want to call this week as it's getting to the point I need to tell my second choice yes or no, and also need to start detailed moving planning. I'd be starting in May, but they have made no offer of a start date, salary info, if I'd get relocation costs, etc. The following questions are all about my first choice company, which has less than 10 people.
1. How do I tell them I need more specific information before I can accept their offer? Should I just say: "I have some detailed questions about this potential position, and would be prepared to accept your offer at this time after I have the information I need."? I couldn't imagine starting at a job without knowing my exact salary, if there was dental and vision with the health insurance, the amount of paid time off, etc. I also don't want to accept an offer when there are still some variables (for example if they said they didn't want me to start until August I'd have to say no as I'd run out of money quickly).
2. Would it be rude to just call and say that I need to have some questions answered, and then I would be prepared to accept their offer, or should I just say I have some questions without opening with that I am prepared to except? I have a salary range in mind and know the going rate for the area. I would plan to ask for a higher salary if some of the benefits are not offered, if there was no paid time off, etc. I even found average monetary value of certain benefits so I could ask and have something to back me up.
3. Is it acceptable to ask for something in writing as well? I know I may need this to verify salary when looking for a rental as I couldn't qualify on my student income right now. Also, while it wouldn't hold up in court, it seems more real than just taking them for their word. Should I ask for a dated/signed letter with a start date, salary, and position title?
4. The company went through a major downsizing a few years back and is now picking up hiring, looking to double or triple in size in the near future. Is there a way to tastefully ask what their severance policy is? In the event I had to be laid off, it would be nice to know how much notice they may plan on and if I'd get some money to offset the major inconvenience. Or, is this way out of line, showing I don't have confidence? Would most companies give you a month's notice or something?
5. If they don't mention anything about a bonus for signing a contract with them, would it be rude to ask? I'm leaning towards not asking on this one as it seems like a thing for bigger companies. I know some of my friends have gotten up to $10,000 though...
6. How do I ask a potential boss (looks in his early 60s) what his plans are for the company when he may retire? I don't want to start somewhere and then have the company dissolve when he decides to retire a couple years later. There are no one to take over because right now he's the main engineer, and has a few engineers he employs that are almost right out of college (besides the office staff). Do I just ask what his vision is for the company 10-20 years down the road, and see if he offers up he may want to retire?
7. What amount of paid time off or sick leave is normal? I need to ask this as well as I know this can make a difference of thousands of dollars a year.
8. Do employers ever let you see their health insurance policy information before you enroll? Even if I found out what company they subscribe to, I wouldn't know what level of coverage. I have health problems that require many office visits and medications, so this is a major factor as with low coverage I could have too many out-of-pocket expenses.
9. Do employers ever see how much of the policy you use? Would they ever find out about my health problems from the insurance? Or, is that unethical? Would my using the coverage in excess cause them to have their premiums raised, and know it was me?
10. If an employer says they have set hours (8am-5pm in this case), and you need to take half a day off for a medical appointment, in that case would you have to miss out on half a day's pay unless you had paid time off to take? It seems like a major inconvenience to not be able to come in early or stay late to make up for missed hours.
11. Is it strange to ask if I'd be able to take a shorter than an hour lunch break to leave earlier in the day? Or is that the kind of question I could wait until I was working to ask? I have no idea what I'd do with an entire hour for lunch, and would much rather work through lunch and leave early (I do this now in school/work all the time).
12. Would it be pushy to ask for relocation costs if I'm only moving four hours away, and plan to use a U-haul anyways? It would be about $500 including gas, so it's still a decent expense for a student like me. Would I ask for a stipend, or be reimbursed for costs dollar for dollar? I'm moving with my fiance, so would they care that the costs are higher because it's both of our stuff, and we'd have to tow one of our cars? Or is that just assumed? It would be cool if they assumed I'd use a company and just give me a couple thousand dollars!
13. Is it too specific to ask now if I'd be able to take courses for improvement of job-related skills on company time and money? The other employer offered this and it sounds like a great idea (I'm not looking to get my Master's though, maybe just take a course a semester to build additional knowledge).
14. Any general ideas of the trade-off between liking your job and liking the place you live? The job offer I want to take is in a city I really want to live in, but I can sense that it is an inferior offer to the other one. But, the second offer is in a city I know I'd hate to live in, and couldn't afford based on average salaries. I wish I had more offers to consider, but I really didn't apply enough places. Many of my applications fell through--two companies went out of business during this year, and a third I applied to just laid off hundreds of people. Should I just live somewhere I like for a couple years, build some skills to be more marketable, and then apply again to try and find the ideal job and the ideal location? I don't want to keep applying at this point because I need to start making money and move on with life (getting married next year).
15. What is the best way to ask "What will you pay me?" Should I say something more along the lines of: "What salary range do you have in mind for this position?" or "I'd be prepared to accept a salary between X and X." They asked me my salary requirements during my interview, but I bypassed the question nicely as I hadn't done enough research yet and didn't want to get turned down just for asking for too much. Also, I'd need to settle on benefits first, and then ask for more of a salary if some of the benefits aren't included. Should I just ask all my benefit questions first, and then talk about salary, stating I'd need to receive X dollars more because such and such was not offered? What should I keep in mind to not lose the upper hand in negotiating a salary?
Thank you for any help for any of my questions. Sorry for the really long post, but I didn't want to start additional threads. I have lots of questions as this will be my first full-time job. Yay!
I'm not sure if a job offer with no mention of salary and/or benefits really qualifies as an offer. You can't possibly make a decision without this information . . . any company should know that.
They said they have profit sharing, and planned to have health insurance by the time I'd start. But yes, this has been bugging the heck out of me as I haven't wanted to seem pushy (I've contacted them a couple times but they never brought it up--just asked how school was, and to keep in touch with them).
Where can I start negotiating if I don't have anything to negotiate? Should I ask them to make me a written offer, which I would hope would include all the info I need?
3. Is it acceptable to ask for something in writing as well? I know I may need this to verify salary when looking for a rental IYou just show your check stubs usually for that.
4. The company went through a major downsizing a few years back and is now picking up hiring, looking to double or triple in size in the near future. Is there a way to tastefully ask what their severance policy is? That should show up in your contract, if you have one. I don't think I would bring that up at all. O In the event I had to be laid off, it would be nice to know how much notice they may plan on and if I'd get some money to offset the major inconvenience. We would all like to know that but you don't ask that.
5. If they don't mention anything about a bonus for signing a contract with them, would it be rude to ask? I'm leaning towards not asking on this one as it seems like a thing for bigger companies. I know some of my friends have gotten up to $10,000 though... You never ask these things. You have to seem like you can't wait to work with them no matter what, even if you think differently.
6. How do I ask a potential boss (looks in his early 60s) what his plans are for the company when he may retire? Do not ask that! Do I just ask what his vision is for the company 10-20 years down the road, and see if he offers up he may want to retire? That question seems OK but don't tell him why you are asking it.
7. What amount of paid time off or sick leave is normal? This is individual to the company. There is no normal.
8. Do employers ever let you see their health insurance policy information before you enroll? II believe you receive this information once you start work.
9. Do employers ever see how much of the policy you use? This is confidential information only for you. Would my using the coverage in excess cause them to have their premiums raised, and know it was me? No.
10. If an employer says they have set hours (8am-5pm in this case), and you need to take half a day off for a medical appointment, in that case would you have to miss out on half a day's pay unless you had paid time off to take? Most every company pays for this type of time off.
11. Is it strange to ask if I'd be able to take a shorter than an hour lunch break to leave earlier in the day? That depends on the company. As far as lunch, it always looks good to eat at your desk anyway and not take a break which does not mean that you can't take a lunch break; it just looks better.
12. Would it be pushy to ask for relocation costs if I'm only moving four hours away, and plan to use a U-haul anyways? I believe this is something they would offer, depending on your position. If you are in a very high position in the company, they very well may move you but would definitely tell you so when they offer you the job; otherwise no. It would be about $500 including gas, so it's still a decent expense for a student like me. Would I ask for a stipend, or be reimbursed for costs dollar for dollar? I'm moving with my fiance, so would they care that the costs are higher because it's both of our stuff, and we'd have to tow one of our cars? Or is that just assumed? It would be cool if they assumed I'd use a company and just give me a couple thousand dollars!
13. Is it too specific to ask now if I'd be able to take courses for improvement of job-related skills on company time and money? The other employer offered this and it sounds like a great idea (I'm not looking to get my Master's though, maybe just take a course a semester to build additional knowledge).
I answered the salary question. Bear in mind, that it can't be about YOU, but your great desire to work for the company which means, unless they wine and dine you, you really don't ask for anything. If they choose a salary you don't like you may be able to negotiate.
1. How do I tell them I need more specific information before I can accept their offer?
Once you recieve and review the offer, it is expected you will ask questions before accepting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
2. Would it be rude to just call and say that I need to have some questions answered, and then I would be prepared to accept their offer, or should I just say I have some questions without opening with that I am prepared to except?
Contact the hiring manager or recruiter regarding any questions you have. You should not indicate that you are prepared to accept until you actually are prepared to accept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
3. Is it acceptable to ask for something in writing as well?
The company will typically update your offer letter with specifics discussed during the offer negotiation
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
4. (in case of layoff) Would most companies give you a month's notice or something?
In most white collar positions, it is customary to get severance when you are laid off. However the amount will vary. As a new grad, you can certainly ask for it in writing, but I doubt you will get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
5. If they don't mention anything about a bonus for signing a contract with them, would it be rude to ask?
Again, you can and should ask, the worse they can say is no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
6. How do I ask a potential boss (looks in his early 60s) what his plans are for the company when he may retire?
This should really have been asked in the interview, not at the offer stage. This is your first job, you're not going to be with the company in 10-20 years anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
7. What amount of paid time off or sick leave is normal?
It varies widely but 2 weeks PTO is pretty typical. This info should be in your offer letter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
8. Do employers ever let you see their health insurance policy information before you enroll?
Most often, yes. HR should be able to give you specifics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
9. Do employers ever see how much of the policy you use?
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
10. If an employer says they have set hours (8am-5pm in this case), and you need to take half a day off for a medical appointment, in that case would you have to miss out on half a day's pay unless you had paid time off to take?
Make-up time is not legal in all states, but it is reasonable to ask about this situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
11. Is it strange to ask if I'd be able to take a shorter than an hour lunch break to leave earlier in the day?
This is considered flextime and is quite common. Generally you want to indicate that you will be available whenever necessary, especially if regular meetings are held during the time you leave early.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
12. Would it be pushy to ask for relocation costs if I'm only moving four hours away, and plan to use a U-haul anyways?
Asking for a bonus, flextime, relocation and a bonus for your first job could be seen as a little pushy, unless you are a top grad from a top school, of course
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
13. Is it too specific to ask now if I'd be able to take courses for improvement of job-related skills on company time and money?
It's pretty typical for most companies to offer some sort of training or education assistance program these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
14. Any general ideas of the trade-off between liking your job and liking the place you live? The job offer I want to take is in a city I really want to live in, but I can sense that it is an inferior offer to the other one.
This is more of a philosophical question. If the company is prestigious, and the experience invaluable, move to the crappy city and suck it up. Otherwise, move to the fun city. All jobs are pretty much the same at the entry-level anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisegirl
15. What is the best way to ask "What will you pay me?"
It's a negotiation. If they offer X, and you want Y, ask for Y. Don't ask them how high they'll go, ask them for what you want.
Just remember that this is your first job. You are looking for a solid offer but shouldn't expect to get the gravy. That said, most large companies offer a fairly comprehensive compensation package.
Where can I start negotiating if I don't have anything to negotiate? Should I ask them to make me a written offer, which I would hope would include all the info I need?
If they haven't offered to even meet with you, I don't know if you got an offer.
I have met with them, and they specifically offered me a job. They have not said anything about salary, and I have not received anything in writing.
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