Fees for Nocatee (2015, foreclosure, condos)

[Lisa259]

Yes Nocatee's CDD fees are based on lot size. I'm on an 80 foot lot and it's about $2200 for the year. There are some homes (resales) in Austin Park and Kelly Pointe that I know were partially paid off by the builders as an incentive, so the only thing the homeowners are paying is the operational portions of the fees.

[houseconfused]

Originally Posted by baha27

My family is considering relocating to Jacksonville from Atlanta. We are very interested in Nocatee but I've read that CCD fees are around $1,200/mo. I'm not familiar with CCD fees - is that similar to HOA fees? Does anyone know the difference and/or is familiar with the cost associated with living there?

There are 3 fees directly related to Nocatee and portions vary based on neighborhood and others vary based on lot size. Don't forget about your property/school taxes and insurance.

1. CDD Bond Portion - These will exist for the bond life and are fixed based on lot size.
2. CDD Operational Portion - These are variable and could potentially change yearly. They were just increased this year and previously to that about 3 years ago.
3. Neighborhood HOA Fees - These start out nice and low for neighborhoods under development but change once the builder contribution is removed at build out. Once the residents take over the board can change these yearly. The default covenants and restrictions/Bylaw's have written in an automatic and cumulative 10% increase per year.

For example, a 60 ft lot in Greenleaf Village currently pays, yearly:
1. 1400.00
2. 689.01
3. 240.00

[Bob Rasmussen]

CDD's are usually payment on 30 year development bonds at 4%
pay your portion up front and save a bundle

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by houseconfused

There are 3 fees directly related to Nocatee and portions vary based on neighborhood and others vary based on lot size. Don't forget about your property/school taxes and insurance.

1. CDD Bond Portion - These will exist for the bond life and are fixed based on lot size.
2. CDD Operational Portion - These are variable and could potentially change yearly. They were just increased this year and previously to that about 3 years ago.
3. Neighborhood HOA Fees - These start out nice and low for neighborhoods under development but change once the builder contribution is removed at build out. Once the residents take over the board can change these yearly. The default covenants and restrictions/Bylaw's have written in an automatic and cumulative 10% increase per year.

For example, a 60 ft lot in Greenleaf Village currently pays, yearly:
1. 1400.00
2. 689.01
3. 240.00

This is as simple an explanation as I've seen. But - to expand a little. The CDD bond portion basically covers infrastructure that has already been installed. Like roads. Or the water park.

Note that I don't know how new infrastructure that benefits the entire community - and the bonds issued to pay for any new infrastructure (a pool - tennis courts - whatever) can affect existing homes/homeowners.

The CDD operational portion goes for everything from landscape maintenance to water park employees/insurance. Not only can these fees go up (they can go down too - but that is unlikely) - I assume that - as in a HOA or condo - there can be special assessments for unexpected extraordinary events/expenses if there aren't sufficient/any reserves "in the bank" to pay for them.

The single largest assessment I ever paid for a loss was a landscape loss in a condo after a storm. That assessment was $10k. Imagine we have a decent storm that knocks down all the trees on Nocatee Parkway. Who will pay to replace them - and how?

A year ago or so I did manage to find a copy of the Nocatee CDD annual budget on line - and it showed that the CDD was operating at a loss. I assume that's why the fees went up. If I were interested in buying - or a current owner - I'd try to get my hands on this budget every year. I would have thought that a CDD would be required by law to send owners a budget statement annually - but that apparently isn't the case (I could be wrong - do you owners get a copy of the annual budget?).

When it comes to HOA fees - different developers can subsidize these in various amounts before "turnover" to owners. Also - after turnover - it isn't unusual to find that developers have been skimpy in terms of things like maintenance - reserves - whatever. This is true in HOAs and condos everywhere. Not only Nocatee. Owners are required to get annual budgets. And - if I were a prospective owner - I'd try to get my hands on last year's budget. I would also expect my HOA fees to go up 25%+ after a turnover once homeowners determine where the developer has been skimpy and start to take steps to rectify the situation.

Finally - I'm not aware of any law that says that HOA fees can't increase before turnover. Is there anything specific to this effect in any/all of the Nocatee HOA documents? Robyn

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by Bob Rasmussen

CDD's are usually payment on 30 year development bonds at 4%
pay your portion up front and save a bundle

Even though I'm a lawyer - I am confused about paying off one's individual part of the bond liability. Where is it written that you can do that? And what would be the point if you don't plan to live in a place for 30 years? Also - whether prepaying anything makes sense depends on the amount of annual payments - the length of time you have to make them - and their future cost discounted to present value at a particular interest rate. Is there some kind of formula in a legal document somewhere that says how the payment you're talking about is computed?

Also - as I understand the current state of Florida law - what little there is on the subject (and there isn't much) - in the event of a CDD default - the bondholders have no recourse against individual property owners. Just against the defaulting CDD. So - if you've paid off your share of the bond to the bondholders - and the bondholders go after the CDD - does the CDD still have a right to go against you? If you don't have a full and complete release from the CDD - I would say yes.

FWIW - there are lots and lots of Nocatee (Tolomato CDD) bonds ($100+ million worth) - and lots of bondholders. When someone pays off the "bond" on his property - who gets the money? What kind of releases do you get - and from whom? You could pay your money to me - and I could give you a release - but obviously that release wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on .

As a lawyer - I am curious to see what's in the average Nocatee title insurance boilerplate. In terms of exceptions. I know when I got my title insurance policy when I bought in this area - I thought the exceptions were ridiculous (and I rewrote a lot of them).

A house is usually the single largest purchase a person makes. And I have found both HOA and condo law (have lived in both in Florida) very confusing and unsettled. At best - I think the CDD structure adds an extra level of even more confusing stuff. And - at worst - who knows? Robyn

[houseconfused]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

.
.
The single largest assessment I ever paid for a loss was a landscape loss in a condo after a storm. That assessment was $10k. Imagine we have a decent storm that knocks down all the trees on Nocatee Parkway. Who will pay to replace them - and how?

A year ago or so I did manage to find a copy of the Nocatee CDD annual budget on line - and it showed that the CDD was operating at a loss. I assume that's why the fees went up. If I were interested in buying - or a current owner - I'd try to get my hands on this budget every year. I would have thought that a CDD would be required by law to send owners a budget statement annually - but that apparently isn't the case (I could be wrong - do you owners get a copy of the annual budget?).
.
.
.

Here are the public documents from board meetings..
Tolomato CDD Document

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by houseconfused

Here are the public documents from board meetings..
Tolomato CDD Document

Good link for people for live in or are interested in Nocatee. Robyn

[JBtwinz]

Originally Posted by houseconfused

There are 3 fees directly related to Nocatee and portions vary based on neighborhood and others vary based on lot size. Don't forget about your property/school taxes and insurance.

1. CDD Bond Portion - These will exist for the bond life and are fixed based on lot size.
2. CDD Operational Portion - These are variable and could potentially change yearly. They were just increased this year and previously to that about 3 years ago.
3. Neighborhood HOA Fees - These start out nice and low for neighborhoods under development but change once the builder contribution is removed at build out. Once the residents take over the board can change these yearly. The default covenants and restrictions/Bylaw's have written in an automatic and cumulative 10% increase per year.

For example, a 60 ft lot in Greenleaf Village currently pays, yearly:
1. 1400.00
2. 689.01
3. 240.00

So these fee's are separate from homeowners taxes and insurance right?

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by JBtwinz

So these fee's are separate from homeowners taxes and insurance right?

Right. Although CDD fees are to the best of my knowledge listed on your property tax bill as a separate item. HOA fees are paid separately to the HOA (or a HOA management company). And homeowners' insurance is paid to the insurance company (directly or through a mortgage payment).

There may be certain insurance costs included in the operational portion of the CDD fees. Like - for example - insurance on the water park. Or in the HOA fees. Like E&O coverage for members of the BOD. Sometimes owners can be assessed when there are claims against these entities that their insurance doesn't cover in whole or in part (for a variety of reasons - including deductibles). There's a part of a homeowners' own insurance policy that might cover all or a part of some of these assessments. It's called "Loss Assessment Coverage". I think it's optional (am not sure). It's not very expensive. I think that all people who live in a HOA or condo association should buy the maximum amount available (usually $50k). The terms and conditions of Loss Assessment Coverage will vary from company to company. Robyn

[ambo]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

Good link for people for live in or are interested in Nocatee. Robyn

So for 2014 they operated under budget for almost ALL of their budgets. Where did you find they are operating at a loss?