Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Investing
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-08-2010, 02:24 PM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
7,688 posts, read 29,182,170 times
Reputation: 3631

Advertisements

I think I've got this figured out, but I just want to make sure I don't get hit with a surprise margin call because I was an idiot. I've been writing cash-secured puts for a while now and had good results. I write puts at the money for the next expiring month, the Monday after the previous month's expiration date. I know it can be hazardous in a bear market, and I'm keeping that in mind, but it's a risk I'm happy to take since the basic mechanism of time decay is always on my side.

So, I'm thinking of experimenting with naked puts, since I've had such consistent success with this. I'm just having trouble understanding the margin requirement. The maintenance requirement listed for E*TRADE is:

Proceeds of the sale plus 20% of the underlying value less out of the money amount OR
proceeds of sale plus 10% of strike price, whichever is greater.


So let's say I want to go short 10 F Oct '10 $10 puts. Premium is 14 cents, so the sale proceeds portion of the maintenance requirement is $140 for ten contracts. Now I have to consider the two possible conditions. Here's where I'm not sure: is the "underlying value" the market price, or the theoretical value given by analysis? The theoretical value given by their analysis tool is 3 cents, but the option is $1.80 out of the money, so that would come to zero, leaving me with a total margin requirement of $140. However, 10% of the strike price would be $1,000, making the requirement under the second condition $1,140. So my margin requirement is $1,140, and all I would need going into it was $1,000.

However, the margin maintenance requirement is also the same. So if $1,140 was all the cash I had in the account, and the value of the option were to rise from $0.03 to over $1.00 due to a stock price decline, then my maintenance requirement would go over $1,140 and I would face a margin call, forcing a buy of 10 puts to close the position.. meaning that I would have just lost at least $1,000, less the $140 premium received.

And of course, if the options were exercised at any time, it would be an instant margin call to the tune of about $9,000 and I'd have to sell the stocks immediately. But if they expire worthless, then I've just returned 14% in a single month.

Have I got things right? I'm not saying I plan to take on that kind of risk, just trying to understand the fundamentals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-23-2010, 08:45 PM
 
Location: No man's land
62 posts, read 146,317 times
Reputation: 71
First, to have a margin account, the minimum equity account balance is usually $5,000, however SEC and FINRA reg only require $2,000.

Underlying value is the "Market Price" of the "stock" in the case of equity options, not a theoretical value of the option or the value of the option itself. Sorry, but I think that if you do not know what "underlying" defines, you probably should not be doing this.

I could go on, but based on what I see here, I am simply going to refer you to the CBOE web site (Chicago Board Options Exchange) to learn the basics of options trading.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Investing
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top