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41% of people over 15 years of age. I couldn't find any statistics for people over 23. Regardless, the OP presented their viewpoint from an anecdotal experience, not as a scientific fact.
Again, anecdotal, and probably presented in comparison with Chicago and other big cities.
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I'm sorry, I still don't agree with someone just constantly trashing a city they don't like. It's just like how BroadRippleGuy used to constantly bash Chicago, Detroit, and California. It isn't something that leads to productive conversation. Constructive criticism is great, but just trying to do everything you can to stop someone from moving somewhere is crossing a line. That's why you see harsh defensive reactions towards the OP.
I've said this before and I will say it again, I don't love living in Indianapolis. I think it's a decent city for the Midwest and Downtown is developing nicely, but it really isn't big enough for me. As soon as I finish up my degree, I'm moving to a larger city. I only mention that because it isn't as if you're talking to someone that is head over heels in love with this place. I'm a realist that will eventually leave, but don't just trash the city constantly because it isn't exactly what I want for the rest of my life.
The points that were presented in the OP are roughly on par with the same criticism that I've been hearing about Indy ever since I set foot in Central Indiana nearly 2.5 decades ago. Of course, that doesn't that all such criticism is always fair or statistically accurate.
I completely understand why someone might be annoyed by the posting style. But that doesn't mean it should be outright dismissed as insane.
If you come to Indianapolis expecting to find Chicago vitality, you are not insane. You are, however, dumb.
I would not move to Indianapolis expecting Chicago vitality any sooner than I would move to DC expecting NYC vitality. However, DC has a lot going on to satisfy for a time, and NY is just a few hours away if I need that sort of vitality.
Isn't the situation in Indianapolis similar, in an Indianapolis : Chicago : : Washington : New York ?
And if it isn't like that, wouldn't it make sense for someone--say, from Chicago--to move to Indianapolis expecting that kind of situation? Would that person be dumb?
I would not move to Indianapolis expecting Chicago vitality
Sad to say that there are people, whom I have met, that come to Indianapolis thinking they'll find some Chicago vitality. Sorry, if you come here expecting that and are miserable when you don't find it, you deserve it. Not directed at anyone in particular, just stating something that does happen in real life.
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Originally Posted by NewProspect
However, DC has a lot going on to satisfy for a time, and NY is just a few hours away if I need that sort of vitality.
Isn't the situation in Indianapolis similar, in an Indianapolis : Chicago : : Washington : New York ?
And if it isn't like that, wouldn't it make sense for someone--say, from Chicago--to move to Indianapolis expecting that kind of situation? Would that person be dumb?
In this situation, you are saying someone is coming to Indianapolis knowing ahead of time that it is a step below Chicago in terms of vitality. So, no, that person would not be dumb. Indianapolis suits me as a place to live, and Chicago is only a 2.5-3 hour drive when I want Chicago. Indianapolis still has the theater, the festivals, the art scene; just on a smaller and cheaper scale with public schools I can navigate.
Are you a young professional looking to move to Indy? Take my simple advice. Don’t. It’s not worth it. I moved here three years ago from Chicago to start a six-year medical residency. Initially I thought the city was pleasant, albeit a bit boring. There were a few positives I quickly noticed including the lack of traffic and newly renovated airport. The people seemed nice for the most part and the weather wasn’t too bad. I soon came to the realization that Indy is a dull suburban wasteland full of identical shopping centers and married people with kids. Is it a good place to raise a family? Probably, but the problem is demographic diversity. The percentage of unmarried people between 25 and 35 in this city has to be one of the lowest percentages in the country for a metropolitan area of this size. If you over 23 and not married you are an outlier.
The problem is not simply demographics. It’s also design. I have lived both downtown and in Meridian Kessler/Broad Ripple. Is there a significant population of young people living downtown? Not of any real significance. I have lived in Chicago, D.C. and Atlanta and all of which have vibrant neighborhoods with active populations of young people. Indy has none of this. Don’t try to convince me that downtown has a great young professional scene on Mass Ave. I’ve lived there. It doesn’t exist. Fountain Square is nice, but it still seems years away from becoming a vibrant neighborhood.
The problem is also mindset. Take the smoking ban for instance. Despite multiple attempts at passing a ban in restaurants years earlier, the ban was only passed several months ago. This is pathetic when you consider that states like Kentucky and North Carolina passed similar laws years earlier. How does the city hope to attract educated, young people with the continued lack of forward thinking? Other laws prohibit restaurants and bars from having hourly drink specials. This essentially eliminates the vast majority of happy hours downtown as restaurants and bars downtown cannot offer discounted drinks for a specific set of hours. Go to any other major city in the country and you will see a vibrant scene of people after work relaxing while networking with others. What happens after work in Indy? People get in their cars and rush to get back to Fishers/Carmel/Zionsville.
Meeting new people is not necessarily difficult, but the city design and mindset makes it challenging. The vast majority of people here are from Indiana. They have their family, college friends, and other people in their close inner circle and don’t feel the need to branch out and meet new people. In most major cities you have a diverse, cosmopolitan cross section of people from all over the country that are reasonably new to the city and are actively looking to meet new people. The mindset is different.
I could easily go on about the non-existent public transportation system, the paucity of good concerts and shows that come to town (choosing Cinci and Louisville over us), the lack of good parks within the city, and the fact that over 30% of the population is obese according to new CDC data, but I’ll stop.
I'm from Indy and I am BEGGING to get out of here. Its like a mind trap that keeps you in here with college debt and minimum wage jobs that keep you tethered to average. We are promised jobs but they are placed away in counties and areas where those that need them most have no way of getting to them.
Indy might be quaint to an outsider but its hell for those who are trying with everything they can to make it, an even bigger insult going when said people are more than professional and stuck in this sinkhole. If you have a chance to move, MOVE. Don't waste it unless you enjoy watching areas slowly rot away and boxed up, with communities moving away and leaving those who have no choice but to stay in the dust. This place is a joke and no slathering of 'GO COLTS!' or 'WE HAD THE SUPER BOWL HERE!!' is going to cover it.
Maybe the changes they want to see are actually improvements for the city.
I would also think the young people who work for nonprofits do care about making the city a better place, whatever their definition of "better" happens to be.
Young professionals who have specialized skills in high demand can afford to be picky. But even they face stiff competition making their way into prestigious companies like Apple and McKinsey. If Indy had more Apples and McKinseys, it would have a lot more bargain power on the young and restless. Of course, it's a chicken or egg problem: those companies are not here because they don't see the talent pool here, and the talent pool is not here because the employers are not here.
THANK YOU. Its as if a greater sect of people EXPECT those who do get degrees in higher fields to STAY here knowing full well that the job market doesn't have anything to offer for them. It doesn't help that in many cases the buying crowd/interest isn't here either so just getting out of college and 'starting here' is almost a slap in the face. People want to go where they know they can enjoy themselves, live well off and pay off that huge debt they got from college.
Do people actually believe that college grads WANT to live in a place that offers them no employment and are fine with working several minimum wage jobs. This seems to be the Indiana mindset but if they want their 'brain funds' to stay then its up to them to put their money where their mouths are (pun intended there) and bring the places like Apple, Microsoft, ect HERE and not in the boonies where college kids, especially those who can not get there if they go to the colleges in downtown or near the heart of Indy (IUPUI, Kelly, Ivy Tech, ect).
Having lived here long enough, I know Indianapolis is not a place for people who need convenience to a job because its not here. We can't even get our public transportation to work for the people and the fact that it shuts down so early when most people have jobs that end WAY after that is laughable.
So here's the scenario;
A student fresh out of college with a degree is given two options. They can move to a place where they have a bigger market for their career and after studying the location, they have been able to find a place that, while small, is able to accommodate them.
OR
They have the choice of staying home where there is no outlet for their field and they are stuck looking for work because the market is flooded with people who are desperate for that minimum wage job.
If you come to Indianapolis expecting to find Chicago vitality, you are not insane. You are, however, dumb.
Then Indianapolis should stop advertising that it HAS that type of vitality. Its a slap in the face for people who live here and known its a load of BS but hey, anything to rope in all those sports events right? Who the heck cares about people who just want good jobs! We got us the Super Bowl back then! It covers up for everything else that is a glaring problem!
Dont let the door hit you on the way out. Good riddance there are plenty of jobs around the city. The Now Hiring signs that i see along the road aren't there for show. Your constant negativity wont be missed.
Take some fiber tablets and ease up. You'll get nowhere in life if you talk to people who want to leave like that. There is a good reason there is a lot of negativity in a lot of people who find themselves stuck in Indianapolis and most of it has to deal with how the city advertises itself but the reality isn't as bright as it makes itself out to be. Indiana does have some good points but for the things that it has, it seems to turn around and go about things that we DON'T have or in a long way to improving. I know being 'truthful' wouldn't be good for market share but for those of us who are LIVING HERE and know the inner workings, it would make a lot more sense and feel less patronizing.
Seriously, it sometimes feels as if Indiana would do just better if it did advertise on Speedway, affordable housing, and Lily (I know I'm missing others, please feel free to insert) mainly instead of inflating itself on a lot of promises that have not been made. World-Class City? Okay, sure. Call yourself that but do it with the things that are good rather than the things that doesn't even exist or are FAR from being world class.
I would like to add its not just 'young people' who are looking for improvement. Its actually a wider array of people from different backgrounds, ages and such, that are looking for improvements and its not just things such as posh restaurants or malls, its basic things such as better transportation and employment, two things which are the MOST important aspects to me and living here AND getting my degree, Indianapolis and Indy IS lacking. When you struggle to get hired and not because of competition but because of LACK of openings and opportunities, then there is a problem.
When the public transportation system can not even get the PUBLIC where it needs to go, then there is a problem. My other issue with how Indy plans and builds is that it expects people to travel too far in a state that has no public transportation connection between many of the counties. I am not asking that Indy just be one huge monorail but its so ridiculous how we hear so many announcements about how jobs are coming in but they're never in the areas where employment is most asked for OR when things started to pick up in Avon years ago the solution for many of those things was shutting down stores near the WESTSIDE (closer to Speedway and Downtown) in order to 'relocate' but the problem in that is that Avon has no connector to Indygo and thus you are left in the dust if you depend on Indygo, which a lot of people do. Another issue is timing and how long the services run, which is insanely short of a city that tries to pump itself up on how good the nightlife. Weekday bus shut down is around 10 and on Sunday is around 6/7 PM. When I was employed a few month ago, closing shop could keep us in the store until MIDNIGHT but because of how the bus system runs here, I ran into troubles and had to quit (among other things but those are things I will not bore you people on)
So right there we have issue with transportation and jobs. If Indy wants to be a world class city, it needs to get these things together and I really don't see how this can be a problem or WHY its taking so long. You want to know WHY people keep comparing Indy to places like Chicago, NY, California and the like? Because their systems at least make SOME sense and all the while, we [Indiana] keep sitting on our thumbs DISCUSSING issues but never putting them into action all the while still boasting that we can compete with cities like this. No, no we can not if we can't even get this to work. If we want people to come here for jobs, we not only have to bring the jobs here but we also have to make them ASSESSABLE to the people. Putting factories out in PLAINFIELD or other counties that require so much time (And gas but I will say with the sudden price drop, people are getting lucky) to get to by CAR when you don't have a car or a car pool is INSANE yet our local government keeps doing this and telling people to WAIT for things that never happen. There are countless folks in the circle city who need jobs, who have the energy and the requirements but can not get to them because they are too far and the time table on our bus system is so poor that people would be unable to keep up with their schedule COULD they get to them. This is such a no-brainer than its almost HILARIOUS.
THIS is why I would not recommend anyone coming here unless they do have a car and perhaps family close by to where the jobs are being located if they require help getting there. I live in the heart of Indianapolis and its tough as all get out to get anything because I don't live near these areas. This is the biggest reason why I want to move and I want to move so badly; I don't mind paying 'extra' so long as I have a viable job (hell, jobS to put it in truth) to pay for it. Commuting? Why are people so scared of this? I've done this for years and I don't mind it at all so going to a place that is commuter friendly with employment is a plus.
You pay for what you get, I understand that but in Indy's case you pay for what you DON'T HAVE. We pay our taxes and yet we still have a rubbish transportation system that can't even get people to and from their jobs and as I said before, its not just the young people who need this. ITS OLDER PEOPLE AS WELL. My mother is coming close to retirement age and wants to find a teaching job but no matter how many applications she sends in, no matter how many credentials she has, SHE CAN NOT FIND WORK and its depressing seeing a person who was at once on top of their game in education struggle to fill out applications online and not getting a single call back because of how broken our education system is not just for students but for the people who WANT to teach.
This is why I sympathize with the older people who DO want to see Indy change but are not so in love with the state as to not see that there are so many issues that need to be taken care of. They (the older generation) talk about how jobs are misplaced and how everyone is having a hard time getting to them and I agree with them. There are conversations going on about how so many areas such as the Westside and Eastside are going down but more attention is paid towards 'growing' areas without the thought of perhaps connecting counties together so people can find more work but in that vein, THAT is going into a class discussion when is a whole 'nother can of worms to talk about here in the state. They understand and they also understand the reason why so many young people are leaving and its because of the simple facts that its not worth staying here if you can not find the job you are trained to do and you can not get to the one that you manage to find in the meantime. Its like some sort of Olympics here but rather than sports, you're working yourself out over getting to a from places that shouldn't be an issue to begin with. Getting your job should NOT be the job.
If Indianapolis is so excited about competing with other states, then it has to step up to the plate and offer things other than cheap housing for people (and companies) to come here for. This place just isn't multi-diverse and for people who want something to do once they get off, that is important as well. We want to compete with Chicago, NY, ect we need to make ourselves open for people to come here. We can not expect people to flood in if the place comes off as somewhere that isn't welcoming (class, race, orientation, age old and young) isn't too reliable for those who can't travel too far (public transportation) and overall has a market that is flooded with people who are seeking employment but there is so little to offer. As someone said in a few post in the past, Indy is a good place for DESTINATIONS. If you're into sports and all that, basketball and football, then yes. By all means come and visit because you'll have fun but for long term things, especially in a growing job market, Indy is still very far behind and once you think about it, its behind on the most basic things and it doesn't have to be but that's our government at work. Growing up here, I will say that things were better when I was younger and that's not 'BACK IN MY DAY' type of thing but looking at how areas around me have just deteriorated strengths that point. For those who HAVE been here for a while, just take a look at the Westside near Georgetown Rd. and Lafayette Square. The area used to be much more vibrant and people would want to go there just to hang out, especially at the mall and some of the tiny little shops in the nearby outlet. Most of the shops in around the area have either closed down or picked up and moved to AVON, leaving very little for those who can not get around to enjoy. Thinking about shops, those could have helped a lot of people stay employed if they were still there but that's how things are and its why so many people are talking about. Its just not a good place to live if you're in the areas where people are actually moving out and leaving nothing for those who have no choice but to remain.
Not saying that there aren't places that aren't WORSE but to sweep the issues under the rug, pretend that they're not there and act as if the people who have legitimate complaints and have reason to leave are just 'crazy yuppies' is the asinine part. Yes, there is pointless bellyaching and I admit that I am guilty of that in post but there is also pointless BURYING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND and acting as if the issues will go away if you don't pay attention to them.
As I mentioned before, you get what you pay for and in Indy, this is what you get and for a lot of people its not enough and not because of 'Oh, its not posh enough!' or 'Oooh! Their fine dining isn't compared to X!' its more like 'I need a better income to support myself and my family but I can not find the work nor will the places I have applied for accept me because I am either 'too skilled' (biggest BS excuse ever) or due to my age (another BS excuse.). What do I do?'
When its not in once place, find it another and for young professionals, if you do not find it here IT IS PERFECTLY FINE TO GO SOMEPLACE ELSE. Indiana is NOT the last and only state in the union so spread your wings and go off. Your job is there so go out and find it. If the job is here, then stay. You have that great option of doing so and enjoy that. This is just to that grad or post grad or even that person who is older and still working who finds themselves stuck and unable to locate the needs they require.
Last edited by AzureBlueWolrd; 11-20-2014 at 06:38 AM..
Reason: Better response.
Then Indianapolis should stop advertising that it HAS that type of vitality. Its a slap in the face for people who live here and known its a load of BS but hey, anything to rope in all those sports events right? Who the heck cares about people who just want good jobs! We got us the Super Bowl back then! It covers up for everything else that is a glaring problem!
Where has Indianapolis advertised itself as having Chicago vitality?
Where has Indianapolis advertised itself as having Chicago vitality?
Its mostly the job market which is what I experienced while going to school here in the city. I had to attend a lot of workshops that had people priding themselves in how Indy was going to outdo Chicago in certain areas of the job market as a way to make people consider staying here and at the same time, there is that out-of-the-classroom atmosphere that can be felt in certain areas around the city as well.
If Indy wants to compete with Chicago, then do some things to make it BETTER than Chicago. If not, advertise what makes Indianapolis good rather than stating things that are not there. In the long run, Indy will have to compete with other cities if it wants to boost the state economy and prevent this 'brain drain' that so many politicians cry about. People are moving to these cities for good reasons and its not just because of 'the nightlife' and other social events. You can't go to social events if you don't have the cash to support that type of lifestyle and for a lot of people, they're going where the job and the market is and in a lot of cases, its NOT in Indy but on other places like Chicago, New York, (New Media, IT, UX, graphic design) and for a lot of people who I studied with TEXAS OF ALL PLACES which I NEVER in my life had even considered as a place to live, even though I do have some relatives there so I wouldn't be by myself.
The thing is if you're going to advertise yourself as a world class city and yet nearby cities have some of the basic things that make a city go figured out, then we are far from that title. We have so many issues as a state to iron out that yes, it is silly to advertise we have the vitality of larger or similarly sized places when we can't even get people to those areas. Sure, things are more affordable (housing as I and so many others have mentioned) but if you can't find the work to even keep that house, its not even worth it.
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