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Although true, overstays usually don't do the right thing once they realize they've made a mistake. It is then a conscious choice on their part to stay in the US illegally.
Of course there are laws on the books. However, we all know that nobody enforces said laws. No one keeps track of who is here and when they should leave. (Someone probably is supposed to do this, but it just ain't getting done!)
And you know this from anecdotal experience of a few people? From some study that they somehow did of people who overstayed?
It's going to be very hard to get illegals to pay up all the back taxes they owe including all the Social Security tax, Medicare tax with fines -- which would be what an American citizen tax evader would have slapped on.
If they stole a social security number, that's a serious felony crime so they shouldn't be eligible for any amnesty, but those who worked for cash most likely have no proof of income and deciding how much back taxes and fines they owe would be impossible.
And why leave out the family they left back in Mexico - why should back child support be given only to children born in the USA?
I don't think you discourage law breaking by rewarding people for breaking the laws.
That's the whole point. If by some miracle they can do it, they might just be worthy of keeping. Of course they would have had to have some documentation of income, which is also hard to come by.
You don't really encourage or discourage law breaking either way - people are just gonna do what they are gonna do.
Paying back taxes is a laughable matter. It's much better to set up a fine in equivalent of what a regular legal immigrant must pay to become a permanent resident.
I would propose a fine in the range of $50,000. They want to come back? They must go back home, pay the fine and then apply for visa from their home countries.
You are right, can't calculate backtaxes... A hefty fine is better.
That's the whole point. If by some miracle they can do it, they might just be worthy of keeping. Of course they would have had to have some documentation of income, which is also hard to come by.
You don't really encourage or discourage law breaking either way - people are just gonna do what they are gonna do.
No, but the point is to discourage most of them. That is why we have prisons and the death penalty. It is a deterrant to commiting murder for "most".
We don't need to "keep" millions and millions of illegal aliens in this country who have flaunted our laws and borders just because they may pay a fine or back taxes. We have millions of Americans out of work that need these jobs and legalizing millions of impoverished will only increase our welfare roles. Even those that work are on the low tax brackets with many dependents so essentially they pay no income taxes. We don't need this uncontrolled population growth that has been the outcome of illegal immigration either.
When those still waiting to cross illegally get the message that there will be no more amnesties, no jobs and no benefits and we secure our borders it will cut illegal immigration back to a trickle.
No, but the point is to discourage most of them. That is why we have prisons and the death penalty. It is a deterrant to commiting murder for "most".
We don't need to "keep" millions and millions of illegal aliens in this country who have flaunted our laws and borders just because they may pay a fine or back taxes. We have millions of Americans out of work that need these jobs and legalizing millions of impoverished will only increase our welfare roles. Even those that work are on the low tax brackets with many dependents so essentially they pay no income taxes. We don't need this uncontrolled population growth that has been the outcome of illegal immigration either.
When those still waiting to cross illegally get the message that there will be no more amnesties, no jobs and no benefits and we secure our borders it will cut illegal immigration back to a trickle.
I dunno if you can get them to leave anyway. Even if you don't give them amnesty or benefits, living impoverished in this country is probably preferable to going back to a violent, more impoverished home country. The only thing that might work is to root them out and send them back kicking and screaming, then sealing the borders.
The reason I bring up this issue of amnesty for people who are worthy of this country is this. The US has a history of being retarded and kicking out important scientist foreigners. (Example: Qian Xuesan, 1940s, founder of JPL at Caltech, involved in JPL and rocket program). He applied to US citizenship in 1949 and was rejected. The US treated him like crap and putting him under house arrest for 5 years for allegedly being a commie. He was not a pinko, but when released he went straight back to china and became the father of chinese rocket science. Pretty idiotic if you ask me, considering how much military and technological information was probably compromised.
I'm also sick of taking care of impoverished "citizens" who take from the welfare system and extended unemployment benefits with my tax dollars, just as I am sick of illegals. I'd rather have smart people from other countries come here and prosper. In my eyes a "citizen" is one who contributes to society - not one who takes away.
this does bring up another question. does anyone differentiate between a person who overstayed a student visa and the person who was smuggled in?
the former has been previeoulsy vetted and allowed to be in the US, while the former has never been through the proper channels to be a part of society.
does it make a difference? is either one more desirable?
It shouldn't make a difference as both have an Illegal status.Even though those that come in on student and/or work visas are usually better educated and have a better chance to be financially independent,Both are in violation of immigration laws and both violated the law.If immigration enforcement is to work it should be applied equally to both violators.
I dunno if you can get them to leave anyway. Even if you don't give them amnesty or benefits, living impoverished in this country is probably preferable to going back to a violent, more impoverished home country. The only thing that might work is to root them out and send them back kicking and screaming, then sealing the borders.
The reason I bring up this issue of amnesty for people who are worthy of this country is this. The US has a history of being retarded and kicking out important scientist foreigners. (Example: Qian Xuesan, 1940s, founder of JPL at Caltech, involved in JPL and rocket program). He applied to US citizenship in 1949 and was rejected. The US treated him like crap and putting him under house arrest for 5 years for allegedly being a commie. He was not a pinko, but when released he went straight back to china and became the father of chinese rocket science. Pretty idiotic if you ask me, considering how much military and technological information was probably compromised.
I'm also sick of taking care of impoverished "citizens" who take from the welfare system and extended unemployment benefits with my tax dollars, just as I am sick of illegals. I'd rather have smart people from other countries come here and prosper. In my eyes a "citizen" is one who contributes to society - not one who takes away.
Although I agree with you in regards to the dead weight types, I disagree with the idea of an illegal being able to buy their way to amnesty. For example we have individuals involved with organized crime. The Russian Mafia for example. Of course they will have the ability to buy their amnesty. We can't always prove the association though. Better to deport along with a massive fine.
By the way illegals do cost legals there jobs. The construction industry for example.
Although I agree with you in regards to the dead weight types, I disagree with the idea of an illegal being able to buy their way to amnesty. For example we have individuals involved with organized crime. The Russian Mafia for example. Of course they will have the ability to buy their amnesty. We can't always prove the association though. Better to deport along with a massive fine.
By the way illegals do cost legals there jobs. The construction industry for example.
Paying the fine only allows them to apply for legal immigration from their home countries.
We must NOT allow them to apply for legal immigration from USA.
I can't think of one good reason for illegal immigrants to receive amnesty except under the circumstance that they are able to pay all their taxes, backtaxes, and support all the family they have in the US. Obviously somebody who can do this is able to contribute to society, and are likely well-educated, thus elevating the talent pool in this country.
But then again most talented people like this probably came through legal channels of immigration.
Unfortunately some people who want amnesty banned are the probably pretty low on the totem pole of intelligence and financial stability as well - and blaming loss of jobs on illegals makes them feel better. Kick them out too. Why stop at illegals... just lose the dead weight.
You said it, if they are capable of contributing they have already gone through legal channels. Any other amnesty will just increase the amount on the social service dole.
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