Anyone have any idea what Westbury Christian School pays? (private school, vacations)

[brucerby]

In big city markets like Chicago, teachers do make more than Texas...but the reason is TAXES.

My sisters medium size house(in Chicago) now is approaching $7,000 annual RE taxes...PLUS Illinois state Income Tax was raised 66% only 2 years ago. As long as you are willing to tax the working population until they break, you can assure teachers make great salaries for working 9 and half months a year.

Otherwise you have to make compromises.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by brucerby

In big city markets like Chicago, teachers do make more than Texas...but the reason is TAXES.

My sisters medium size house(in Chicago) now is approaching $7,000 annual RE taxes...PLUS Illinois state Income Tax was raised 66% only 2 years ago. As long as you are willing to tax the working population until they break, you can assure teachers make great salaries for working 9 and half months a year.

Otherwise you have to make compromises.

1. Teachers do not work 9.5 months per year. They work from mid-August through mid-June. Teachers are still working when the children are off. They have in-services, setting up their classrooms, preparations, grading and other things to do.

2. Despite the public perception that teaching is easy, ask the people who came in from industry. They will tell you they work more hours and work harder as teachers then they ever did in private industry. When I worked in tech (for IBM), I had 6 weeks of vacation (teachers have 8 weeks really). I hardly ever brought work home. I got comp time when I worked late.

3. As a teacher, I cannot control the outside forces that effect my students. When I worked for IBM, the product was standardized. Kids are not standard, so you have to do what you can with the materials no matter if they are living in poverty, living with drug addicted parents, being neglected (I had a student in Chicago whose parents threw her out in the street with cotton pjs when it was below zero), living in a gang-infested area where they fear being shot, or simply being totally uninterested in succeeding in school because they don't see any point. A teacher will get good results if they teach in a school with good demographics. That same teacher may get terrible results if they teach in a school with bad demographics.

4. As a teacher, I cannot control the government and administrative interference in my classroom. With the NCLB and the emphasis on testing, it is almost impossible to actually teach. In many places, kids do not read the classics and analyze them because it is not on the state test. In math, they don't learn to think and do problems that are different from what is on the tests either. Science and social studies are neglected as well. Art and music have been eliminated from the curriculum in many places. Recess which kids need in order to get their bodies moving so they can concentrate is also gone.

5. Teachers are not free to actually vacation in the summer as they are often required to take classes to keep their certification valid. And, they pay for their courses. When I had classes while working for IBM, they were either provided by the employer *or* the employer paid at least a part of the cost if you could show that the courses were relevant to your job.

[War Beagle]

Originally Posted by nana053

1. Teachers do not work 9.5 months per year. They work from mid-August through mid-June. Teachers are still working when the children are off. They have in-services, setting up their classrooms, preparations, grading and other things to do.

5. Teachers are not free to actually vacation in the summer as they are often required to take classes to keep their certification valid. And, they pay for their courses. When I had classes while working for IBM, they were either provided by the employer *or* the employer paid at least a part of the cost if you could show that the courses were relevant to your job.

This is still infinitely better than the 2-3 weeks of vacation most Americans receive. You were in an extreme minority of American workers though by receiving 6 weeks off. Teachers automatically get 2 weeks off at Christmas. They get a week off in the summer. Then they do get a prolonged period of time off in the summer, even if they do have training sessions to attend.

That said, I'll grant you that teaching is extremely stressful. Probably much more so than most office jobs.

[crbcrbrgv]

Originally Posted by brucerby

In big city markets like Chicago, teachers do make more than Texas...but the reason is TAXES.

My sisters medium size house(in Chicago) now is approaching $7,000 annual RE taxes...PLUS Illinois state Income Tax was raised 66% only 2 years ago. As long as you are willing to tax the working population until they break, you can assure teachers make great salaries for working 9 and half months a year.

Otherwise you have to make compromises.

You will NEVER make 100,000 teaching in Texas. In greater Chicago, you can make 100,000+. Furthermore, there is absolutely no monetary advantage for obtaining a Masters. In most states, they'll give you 5k+ a year. Here in Texas, many districts give you >1000. It's almost as if Texas encourages teachers to not be educated.

Nana, I was going to quote you, but I'll use a Chicago analogy/metaphor (Whatever it is, sorry I'm tired) instead as your post was long and quoting you would take up much space.

Not only did you hit it out of Wrigley, you broke a three flat's window on Waveland!

And Colcat, indeed they do.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

This is still infinitely better than the 2-3 weeks of vacation most Americans receive. You were in an extreme minority of American workers though by receiving 6 weeks off. Teachers automatically get 2 weeks off at Christmas. They get a week off in the summer. Then they do get a prolonged period of time off in the summer, even if they do have training sessions to attend.

That said, I'll grant you that teaching is extremely stressful. Probably much more so than most office jobs.

Once you work in industry in a professional job for some years, you get more than 2 to 3 weeks vacation. My son who just changed jobs will have 5 weeks in the first year he works in his new job (he's a chemical engineer). Teacher vacations should not be compared to the *average* vacation of someone in a non-professional career. My fil, a doctor, took off as much as he wanted to because he got other docs to cover for him. My sister, who is a legal secretary, sets her own vacation time (she has been working at this firm for a long time and they know how good she is). As I said, when I worked for IBM, I had 6 weeks of vacation and my dh had a similar amount. We did work for IBM for a long period of time.

Yes, teaching is much more stressful than any office job. And, btw, at this period of time, I would NEVER suggest that any student decide to go into teaching as a career. It's no longer worth it.

Also note that teaching no longer has much in the way of benefits. I had fantastic health care and pension benefits from IBM. My son has similar benefits from his company although the pension is now not pension, but in a different form. Teachers pay through the nose in many places for LOUSY health care coverage.

[brucerby]

NANA053:
I never said teaching was easy. It's not easy, but it's no harder than most other jobs.

I get tired of hearing teachers depicting teaching as such a tough job and not considering how tough MOST jobs are. And yes, Teachers do only work about 9 and half months a year. That's one of the many reasons teaching jobs are in such high demand.

I've been friends with many teachers over the last 30 years...EVERY ONE OF THEM love having their summers off. Who wouldn't? My neighbor next door (a teacher) is in Europe right now, and her daughter, also a teacher, is in California. Her mother by the way is eligible for retirement with great benefits at ....55 YEARS OLD...who gets that in corporate America, or as a self-employed person?

When compared to most careers requiring a college degree, it is probably the best opportunity available. When even a single teaching job opens up in ANY district in America, the job applications FLOOD in. Why? Because anyone knows teaching in the public school system pays very well, has great benefits, mostly paid health insurance, great hours, no weekends and early retirement.

Teachers can complain about how hard it is, but it's mostly a case of them never having done any other work. They start in teaching right out of college and don't really know how tough the larger work world is.

BTW, a niece of mine is a kindergarten teacher for the last 3 years. Came in right after college. Very dedicated, and plans to teach the rest of her life. But, she has already admitted that many of her co-workers are in it for the summers off and easy hours.

The teachers union, in its desire to protect teachers at all costs, has done harm to students and the education system. But that's a bigger topic in itself.

Now I wait for you to defend the teachers union....that should be interesting.

[testmo]

I know several teachers and they admit their job is pretty easy. They are not working this summer and don't start prepping their class until the week before school starts. I don't hear about them ever having to complete some long in depth trainings in the summer. They take multiple vacations. Some leave the country all summer. They can start two weeks before but they aren't going to. They are good teachers. It just doesn't require that much outside work for certain subjects and grades. BTW one is in a religious private school and the others are public school teachers

The pro everything for teachers argument falls apart when you try to rely on ONLY teachers work 45-50 hours a week, ONLY teachers work outside of business hours, ONLY teachers have to come in on the weekends, ONLY teachers have to deal with ****ty people. that is every job in the world basically. I'd take a pay raise to become a teacher and have summers off. Lord knows I deal with crappy kids all day and their parents after hours anyway.

[War Beagle]

Originally Posted by nana053

Once you work in industry in a professional job for some years, you get more than 2 to 3 weeks vacation. My son who just changed jobs will have 5 weeks in the first year he works in his new job (he's a chemical engineer). Teacher vacations should not be compared to the *average* vacation of someone in a non-professional career. My fil, a doctor, took off as much as he wanted to because he got other docs to cover for him. My sister, who is a legal secretary, sets her own vacation time (she has been working at this firm for a long time and they know how good she is). As I said, when I worked for IBM, I had 6 weeks of vacation and my dh had a similar amount. We did work for IBM for a long period of time.

You say this with the certainty that it is guaranteed, but it's not. Is it often true? Yes. Is it always true? No.

American employers tend to have an irrational aversion to vacation time. We're famous throughout the world for having employers that are stingy as hell with vacation time. Most organizations max out at 4 weeks and that is after an extremely long period of time - such as 15 to 20 years. Some employers will negotiate on people starting at higher levels of vacation, others will not. It is by no means the certainty that you imply.

A new trend is to lump vacation and sick time together. I'm personally in favor of this since I never use sick time, but for people who are sick or have sick family members, this could really chew into "vacation" time.

I think a lot of us get tired with the disingenuous claims from teachers that they don't get more time off than every other worker. It's a laughable argument that only serves to lower peoples' respect for teachers or to make them question the veracity of other complaints teachers make.

[crbcrbrgv]

Back on topic, turns out he won't get the job. He's been divorced twice, kind of a big no-no for their school. Now we all feel bad for wasting his time.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by brucerby

NANA053:


The teachers union, in its desire to protect teachers at all costs, has done harm to students and the education system. But that's a bigger topic in itself.

Now I wait for you to defend the teachers union....that should be interesting.

There IS no teachers union in Texas.