An example of something in Texas that makes outsiders scratch their heads (Houston: sales, real estate)

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by jek74

Has it occurred to you that when electric was cheap it was because the taxpayer was subsidizing it just like they were in CA during the Enron crisis? That probably did NOT occur to you. You see, you guys on the left like to think that when the government fixes prices it means you get are getting something cheap without having to pay for it. When in reality, your tax dollars are paying for the subsidy. Money is not free, it's simply shuffled around. But hey, Santa Claus will be stopping by in about a week or so, bringing some free stuff for you as well.

It didn't occur to me because it isn't true. Electric utilities were not government owned. They were privately owned or coops. They were highly regulated and allowed about 8% profit and had to show the books to support the rates they requested. There was never any transfer of funds from city/state to utility companies.

And if you think they were subsidized by tax dollars, then deregulation should have resulted in lower local tax rates. Not.

[Texascrude]

I'm relatively new to Texas, so I won't pretend to know the complete history, but if my memory severs me well it seems like the utilities were deregulated ~2002?

Found this interesting website that compares the average price per kWh for all the states from 1998 to 2010.
(Electricity Price Comparison by State Archive)

Each year varies a bit, but Texas was 36 in 2001 31 in 2010. In full disclosure it's moved around quite a bit from year to year so I don't think you can say our relative spot has gone down, but it certainly hasn't gone up either.

Prices on the other hand HAVE gone up, but not just in Texas. National average has gone up from 7.31 to 9.83 over that time. I don't think most people realize that, and so they see the price increase in Texas and say "deregulation isn't working". In fact, it is working just fine and when you compare our prices against other states you can see that a little more clearly.

[Johnhw2]

Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv

This: Electric Utility Executive Compensation - Houston Chronicle

How does one explain this? Or are most people in Texas against deregulation?

When I tell my friends back home what we pay in electric, that cannot believe it.

And if I told them what the average C.E.O. for one of these companies makes....

Im not surprised since many states do not seem to understand capital and who provides it or why they need a return on capital provided. If you do not think a CEO can make a difference in success or failure then why do you vote for President.... for the same reason... one man can make a difference.

If you think their isnt competition between energy providers you must think the Cowboys and Redskins cooperate rather than compete.

I scratch my head at the thought coming out of some posters mouths as well as the action of some state's.... if we all thought the same life would be boring....and its not

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Texascrude

Prices on the other hand HAVE gone up, but not just in Texas. National average has gone up from 7.31 to 9.83 over that time. I don't think most people realize that, and so they see the price increase in Texas and say "deregulation isn't working". In fact, it is working just fine and when you compare our prices against other states you can see that a little more clearly.

In your stats, we were below (cheaper) than the national average in 1998, 1999, and 2000. Prices started jacking up before it was fully implemented and we were above (more expensive) the national average in all subsequent years except 2010. So 3 of 4 years prior to dereg we were cheaper, and 7 of 9 years after dereg we were higher, with one of those two being the first year it was implemented with a mandatory 10% cut in order to con the public. You honestly see no trend?

In any event, it is certainly not working just fine with respect to the promises that it would lower rates.

[Texascrude]

Originally Posted by DiverTodd62

In your stats, we were below (cheaper) than the national average in 1998, 1999, and 2000. Prices started jacking up before it was fully implemented and we were above (more expensive) the national average in all subsequent years except 2010. So 3 of 4 years prior to dereg we were cheaper, and 7 of 9 years after dereg we were higher, with one of those two being the first year it was implemented with a mandatory 10% cut in order to con the public. You honestly see no trend?

In any event, it is certainly not working just fine with respect to the promises that it would lower rates.

Like I said, it's hard to draw too many conclusions with simple data and a small sample size. I'd agree you haven't seem them drop dramatically, but to say it's led to higher rates isn't true either.

We have higher rates because the National Average has gone up about 30% over the last decade, not because we deregulated the market.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Texascrude

We were the highest rank in the sample period in 2001 -- the year before the deregulation. Like I said, the data is noisy, the sample size small, but to say that it's had the opposite effect is not accurate.

The data is clear, it has not brought what was promised. Power costs vary in different parts of the country due to many variables but we can see an apples to apples comparison right here in Texas between the areas that were deregulated and the areas that remained regulated (like San Antonio). No noise here at all.

[oceangaia]

Note that it's the superior performance of our regulated markets relative to the national average that help to make the aggregate numbers you referenced look better.

[lhafer]

There are 3 power grids that supply the entire country's power supply. The Eastern power grid, the Western power grid, and Texas' power grid (ERCOT). We finally had to branch out a little last year during the rough drought to help prevent blackouts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/bu...-bit.html?_r=0

[JasonAndJulie]

Chicago heat bills might be $400 in the winter, but many people pay $400+ here in the summer, and $300+ 9 or more months out of the year. It varies depending on the direction your house faces, how energy efficient it is, and a million other factors. If you think we don't pay high utility bills in Texas, you are mistaken.

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by JasonAndJulie

Chicago heat bills might be $400 in the winter, but many people pay $400+ here in the summer, and $300+ 9 or more months out of the year. It varies depending on the direction your house faces, how energy efficient it is, and a million other factors. If you think we don't pay high utility bills in Texas, you are mistaken.

I think the point is we all pay a lot of money to stay comfortable, regardless of location.
I don't know about chicago, but NY (where I'm from) has state tax coming out of your paycheck. Not in Texas. That's a lot of freakin money saved. Not to mention the rest of the low cost of living. So as much as I'd like to save even more money, I'm not balking (much) over a little extra cash to stay cool when it's 100+ degrees outside.