So we started removing the popcorn ceiling (floor, vacuum, painting)

[StarryEyedSurprise]

We've always been apartment dwellers, but we're pretty enthusiastic about DIYing stuff around the house we closed on last week. First thing on the list - popcorn ceiling. After reading posts here and elsewhere, what we did was:

Fill a garden sprayer with very warm water and a drop of vinegar
Spray a 2x2 section of the ceiling - we started in a bathroom
Use a plastic wallpaper scraper to remove the popcorn

When all was said and done (ignoring the horrible mess) we found that maybe half of the ceiling came down and looked okay. In some parts it was difficult, and my husband tried both scraping a bit harder (and thus exposing some of the paper) or trying lighter, which left it a bit textured, then attempting to sand it using 60 sandpaper, which was SO not worth the effort.

At this point my husband thinks he will probably have to spackle the whole ceiling - we were told by our contractor that we should spackle and sand, three times. Now we're not afraid of work, but since we're new at this, it might take a while.

So, I'd like to know - are we doing this incorrectly, since it really isn't very smooth looking, and will require all this spackling? If we're doing it right, is there a particular way to apply the spackle? And lastly, since we have an entire 2500 sqft of ceiling to do, are we better off putting up 3/8" drywall and calling it a day? Again, we're more than willing to do the work, but we want to do it RIGHT and want it to look good when all is said and done.

Thanks all!

[rubytue]

One of the main reasons builders do popcorn ceilings to to avoid the time and labor of a proper mud job, so its not surprising you didn't get a smooth surface underneath. The popcorn is to hide the fact it wasn't smooth. If you lay 3/8" drywall, you will still have to mud, tape, mud, sand, mud, sand, mud, sand for all the joints. So that wouldn't buy you much.

I'd just skim coat what you need to. Make sure you get yourself one of these and a pole that screws into it. It will make your life much easier. But celings are a pain in the ***, neck, and shoulders to do.

As for applying the mud, I can't see your ceilings, but I would guess two coats. Get yourself a mud pan, an 8" blade and a 12" blade (drywall knife, putty knife, various names). Put some mud (say 2 cups worth) in the pan, add a tiny (1-2 Tbsp) of water, then stir it together with a smaller putty knife (3"-ish). This will loosen the mud and make it easier to work with. Use the 8" blade first to skim coat the rougest and deepest patches. Probably some videos on YouTube that can show you the angle to hold the knife. Let that dry for 12-24 hours, sand it. Then repeat the process with a 12" knife. Prime, then paint. Make sure you have a hot tub or massage therepist available.

[Cosmic]

Wow.............and the worse is you actually use that horrible word SPACKLE. I hope you really don't mean SPACKLE.

You don't really use spackle for nothing. Even that drywall mud out of a bucket has very limited uses. Basically if you are going to have to sand a lot are doing it all wrong.

For most newbie type rookies they are never going to get that type work to look right. Plus you will have that sanding dust everywhere. The effort will eat you alive.You never use sandpaper, only drywall sanding screens with the proper tool to hold it.

I would do it, first remove all the popcorn. Let it all dry well. Depending on what that looks like, do a veneer plaster very lite skim coat over entire ceiling. Not being the Worlds best plaster (there are actually few really good plasterers around any more) it will not come out perfect. Lots of that is having a very skilled person that knows how to mix it and can keep it supplied in the right working quanities. Usually need a retarder to get enough working time.

That will set up quickly, even the best mix only gives ~20 minutes working time. Be quite hard and difficult to sand at all. You attempt to pull it out hard and smooth in a very thin coat, not worrying about minor defects. A really good plasterer could do it perfect, no other work required. He would do a thicker coat, maybe two coats.

I would then fill that coat with the drywall dry mix out of a bag, that also will have a working time, it varies depending on what you buy, time is a number on the bag, when it sets will be softer than first coat, can be sanded but you can get it close to a perfect coat. The trick here is you can not sand down into the first hard layer, the amount of material to be removed is minimum. You can do it all in the same day, just keep mixing and application.

Depending on what the second coat looks like, I might do another fill coat with the finer mud compound out of a bucket before any sanding at all. That will be the softer of the three coats and should give close to a perfect finish. Will need to wait 24 hours. No sanding was done up to this point.

Then I can very lightly vacuum sand the entire surface for the final perfect finish. I will only be able to cut into the last two coats. The vacuum system attaches by a hose to a tool that uses drywall sanding screens. Would use a fine mesh screen for most of the work.

Even if you know exactly how to do it, still a lot of work, some skill level is required but you should be able to get a perfect looking surface.

For most complete newbies, I would not even attempt to remove the crap, just hang 3/8" new layer of drywall and go from there. Again there are many tricks. Fill the screw holes and joints with the dry mix out of a bag. It shrinks less, will dry quickly, with some skill you can get a very good fill. Only need two coats. First coat has the mesh tape in it on the joints. With enough skill, you don't even sand the first coat, can just damp wipe it with a sponge, or just go to the next step. Then the second coat can use drywall compound out of a bucket. After that sets up for at least 24 hours come back and lightly sand with a drywall screen. That is the only sanding with enough skill.

Your typical newbies will not have the right tools, use the right materials, have the right techniques but can muddle thru. If you are sanding, sanding, sanding, sanding, you are doing it wrong. You want the layers to have different hardness so it is more difficult to sand down deeply and just remove all the materials put on. There is skill required in the eye and the wrist but you can mull thru with enough coats.

That other stuff covering the removed mess, most rookies don't have the necessary skill levels to make it finally look perfect. Effort might kill you. You will have to do a cover coat(s) for the entire ceiling, lot more skill required. Hopefully the more you do the skill levels comes up. Getting the right materials in the right spots is critical. Over sanding is the common mistake.

You do not use spackle for nothing. Only good for throwing in the trash. I hope you never found a place to buy any. After you do it a few times will get to appreciate the skill levels of most drywall crews. Most of them also sand very lil these dazes. The materials available have come a long ways, so have the techniques.

[jimboburnsy]

Cosmic beat me to it about the spackle, although to be fair, there are some applications where spackle is superior to joint compound. Actually, "some" may imply that there are more than two.

If you moved a painting and want to fill a nail hole without waiting 24 hours for it to dry before you can sand and paint - spackle is ok.

If you knock a dent or a ding into your drywall that is small and cosmetic in scope and you want to fill it without having to re-apply in 24 hours to correct shrinkage, then wait 24 hours before sanding and painting - spackle is ok.

Mud is for everything else. Also, 15 lbs. of joint compound costs about as much as 2 lbs. of spackle. You'll waste quite a bit of money if you try to cover the ceiling in spackle. And then you'll have to do it all over again with the right stuff.

[Cosmic]

You can do both of those applications with better materials.

Nail holes and small dings can do with glazing compound (like you use on windows) or veneer plaster and paint within 5 minutes. Can even use caulking in a real pinch on the nail hole. Paint by the time you get the can open.

Spackle is only good for one thing I can think of. #102 Things to Do with a Dead Cat. Put both in the same bag and drop off a very tall bridge. Be well gone before both hit the water.

Even that mud in a bucket I use very sparing. Too soft, only use for very fine fill and final surface baby arsed smooth work.

[StarryEyedSurprise]

My apologies. I meant joint compound. Whenever I hear people talk about putting up drywall, I hear, "you need to spackle this."

Anyway, using the joint compound (taking a break atm), I notice that it's okay until a piece of the ceiling comes off - no, I am attacking it with the mud knife or w/e it is called, this happens in one of those areas that I mentioned seems to still be a bit textured even after taking off the popcorn. Then I get a big line where it comes off onto the knife, need to take it off, try to fix it...

Either way, I'll feel a lot better about this if someone can tell me that after "skimcoating" everything, even if it doesn't come out perfect, if I sand it down and repeat the process two more times, will it look better, lol. So far my husband is highly discouraged (which is why I took over from him) and is seriously considering getting the thin drywall.

[Cosmic]

Anytime you break or gouge or remove parts of the facing paper, tape that area with the fiberglass mesh drywall tape. Do not just try to skim coat over the area. The gypsum could fail in that area, especially if moisture is present. Taping it restores a facing.

You can sort of get a decent looking surface. The common mistake is to use that joint compound in a bucket and put it on, sand it off, put more on, sand that off. In effect most of it winds back up as dust.

You really need the idea of a "Rough Coat" which is harder and much more difficult to cut with a sanding screen. That coat does the initial fill and smoothing of the surface. Most of it will stay in place.

Then follow up coats with softer mixes fill in those defects in the first coat, maybe a follow up third coat, even finer compound and then just a very lite pressure sanding to smooth the surface, not try to remove much material.

Depends on the skill levels. I've done it where you describe what is going to happen. Do it, show how it is done. Give them the tools and try not to look too much. They usually do it their way, even if screamed at in the process. The ways of the World.

The smooth surface is actually formed primarily by the methods and placement of the coats. The sanding is just the final buff up, not an attempt to grind it into perfection. Lot less work.

There are books on the subject, video tapes, they tend to be a more "Standard Approach". Lots of tricks to the trade.

You really do not see a lot of the foobaas until it is painted. Helps to shine a very bright light sitting on the floor to the ceiling as you work it.

The other negative about that bucket type joint compound it is water soluable and will want to peel if you use a latex primer and roll back into the wet prior painted areas a lot. Usually want to use a oil primer and do not over roll it. The compound can lift off in strips around the roller if you get to aggressive, stay too long in the wet areas and work it too much.

Will not happen much if you use the harder types of finishes. Veneer plaster is very immune to that type failure. So it most of the dry mixes.

[texdav]

I persoanlly have helped do this several times. I prefer the dry method with a about 18 thin metal scasper . Then clean up the mess with a vacuum and spray lightly woith texture or even no texture as there will still be one.Latex primer and paint as usual. Wetting the jpoints is a mistaker unless you redo them:IMO.

[The_Texture_Guy]

The areas you had trouble with were probably painted over. Paint and popcorn dont mix very well and are real hard to get off. When you do soak stuff with the water. it is best to let it sit for a few minutes and let the water get to the drywall. I've never used vinegar and don't see the point in it. get a Quality 6" or 8" finishing knife and scrape the popcorn away. it should come off quite easily. if it dosent than it is either painted popcorn or some type of roll on texture. Popcorn is easy to remove. just have to be carefull around the edges.

[country pride]

I hate that popcorn ceiling stuff, and many use it to cover things like water spots (from leaks and cracks) where regular touch-up paint just cant do that without painting the whole ceiling.