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Old 03-22-2009, 10:52 AM
 
25 posts, read 83,955 times
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Ok basics on the house first. It's approximately 60 years old, no insulation, no subflooring, no vapor protection. The crawlspace under the house is 18" at its highest and 11" at its lowest. Near impossible to work in, so adding a vapor barrier is out. The crawlspace is continually damp and during the winter pipes froze throughout.

First step is going to be to insulate the pipes. Difficult but I have a friend who is skinny enough and willing to do it.

Second step is going to be thermal louvers with screens at all openings to the crawlspace and a "door" at the opening where the water pipes exit the ground (directly under my kitchen sink)

Now here are the parts I'm unsure about.

The house has plants that I think were meant to be foundation shrubs, planted way too close. I am working in stages pulling those plants. In there place I am putting a two foot gap, then real foundation shrubs spaced so that they will not grow into the gap. The two foot gap is being angled away from the house (one bubble north of level). Do I need to worry if the dirt level against the crawlspace wall (concrete) is raised? or does it need to stay level and I angle down from that?

At the edge of the two feet is a "channel" for water to flow away in. The reason for this is because all the rest of the soil around the lot is actually higher than the soil in that two foot gap. I'm going to channel the water to a naturally low spot in the lot (the front yard). I doubt it's going to be a drastic change but I could be wrong.

On the outside edge of the channel is going to be a slight berm (3 or 4 inches). The berm will prevent water from the rest of the lot from continuing to drain towards the house and crawlspace unless we get flooding.

I'm a novice so this is just based off of my experiences from gardening and some odds and ends I've learned over the years. Any advice would be appreciated. But I'll warn you now, I don't have the money for professionals other than the ones who've already been here. No one in my family seems to think the wet crawlspace is a problem. Their theory is that "it's just an old house and that's how old houses are". I see a problem because I'm finding moisture in the attic, and I know it's not the roof because the roof has been repaired and checked two times now.

Thanks for any help.

Kim
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:19 PM
 
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I am not an expert, but have owned two homes with crawlspaces.

The vapor barrier should be easy to do. It is just large sheets of plastic. I would definitely insulate the pipes if it feels cold and insulate under the house.

If you find standing water, you may want to add a sump pump. Our house in Maryland had one. Typically there is a french drain running around the inside perimeter of the crawl space into a small pit with a pump that shoots the water out a pipe that moves the water away from the house.

As for adding dirt up against the house, make sure that if you have brick with weep holes - that you do not cover them. The weep holes allow the moisture behind the brick to weep out. Cover the holes can also introduce creepy-crawlies behind the brick.
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Alabama!
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Be careful to always have some air flow. You don't want mold growing up into the walls. We have had foundation people advise both for and against closing up a crawlspace with thermally-closed vents. Best would probably be to have at least one vent open on each side so you have some airflow. One even advised putting in an electric fan.

Definitely insulate those pipes! You might even consider the electric wiring that can be taped around the pipe, for especially exposed pipes.
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:07 PM
 
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If it wasn't for how small the crawlspace was, I would add plastic. But there is barely enough room for my friend to move around on his back, much less hold plastic sheeting up and staple it in. We are actually holding off temporarily on the pipe wrapping because we are putting a new tub in the bathroom. Since we may end up redoing the bathroom floor, or part of it, at the same time, we will be able to reach about half of the pipes easily. I figure we will wrap those pipes then, and then go underneath to wrap what can't be reached that way.

If there are weep holes I haven't seen them. The crawlspace was done with concrete most of the way and bricks covered with concrete in a few locations. There are "holes" spaced along the sides and front of the house.

Kim
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:10 PM
 
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Thanks Southlander. I'll have to check further. I may leave the front ones with just screens.

The house is on a N/S orientation, so during the winter the "holes" on the sides are part of the pipe freezing problem. Especially on the west side of the house which is continually in full shade. Good foundation shrubs should help, but I'm worried that it won't be enough. And it will take a few years for the shrubs to grow in to full size.
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Old 03-22-2009, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Alabama!
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You don't have to staple the plastic in. Just spread it.
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, Al
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If you cover the ground in the crawlspace you will likely lessen the moisture problem dramatically. Put it on the ground, overlap 12 inches and make sure it reaches wall to wall. If you've had this moisture for awhile you may have wood decaying fungus on your floor joists and/or subflooring. This will appear as a yellowish dusty substance. If you have it call a termite company for inspection and treatment. Route your gutter downspouts away from the foundation and add gutters if you have none. Divert any downhill storm drainage away from your foundation. Do that then reanalyze your moisture content of your joists with a moisture meter or hire a home inspector who can do it for you after the joists have had some time to dry out. It should be 8 to 12 % but up to 18 or 20% is commonly allowed during rainy or humid periods. Good luck.
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:13 PM
 
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Thank you. The home was fully inspected before purchase and no termites or fungus noted. No gutters, so gutters are part of my plans for this year. Part of the reason I thought to attach the vapor barrier to the floor joist was because I was worried about water pooling on top of the barrier. The ground within the two feet of the foundation is all lower than the surrounding ground, probably due to time/no gutters. Currently water doesn't pool under the house unless there are severe storms, and then it remains no longer than anywhere else in the yard. I am currently angling the soil around the base and adding drainage ditches as I rework the foundation plantings. I hadn't realized just how much that would keep out from under the house until the last big storm. Now I'm thinking about digging the ditches to 1 1/2 - 2 ft on the side of the house that is always in the shade, and always moist. The rest of the ditches will probably stay at 1 ft because that seemed sufficient and the soil absorbed the water at the same rate as the rest of the yard. I guess I'm lucky in that the yard is not clay, but rather a decent soil mix.
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, Al
35 posts, read 102,253 times
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Might want to consider a french drain around the interior and exterior perimeter edge of the crawlspace. make sure to route it away. I had a friend in Cullman allow drainage to run against his house for several years and it ended up being a total loss. Ate it out from the joists up. It will also weaken your footings as that much drainage can alter weight and pressure of soil on crawlspace walls and basement walls especially. You need to stop putting money into this and call Burt Cox at foundation and renovation specialsits inc. He's the expert and he'll tell you what to do. His number is 880-1901 and he is universally respected by all in Huntsville who know real estate for foundation analysis including water penetration which sounds like what you have. I've referred him a hundred times and never had a complaint.
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:09 PM
 
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Put down a moisture barrier (on the ground.) Look into getting either the vents that open/close accordign to built up heat or sealing the whole area. If you seal the whole thing you can always have a portable dehumidifyer to pull out any excess moisture from time to time.

I have the french drain/sump pump combo and it has been very effective. I also have a spot or two where the house is lower than the ground around it but have never had a water issue under the house except for a couple of times the entire neighborhood was sitting in a sheet of water during tropical storms and similarly heavy rains.

Make sure the gutters carry the water sufficiently away from the house when the downspouts are put in.
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