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We are planning to buy a house with an older forced hot air heating system, and due to allergies of some household members, to convert that to a hot water based heating system. Can anybody advise how difficult that job might be, and how much are the approximate costs? The house (a cape) is not very big, rooms on two floors, plus a finished basement.
We are planning to buy a house with an older forced hot air heating system, and due to allergies of some household members, to convert that to a hot water based heating system. Can anybody advise how difficult that job might be, and how much are the approximate costs? The house (a cape) is not very big, rooms on two floors, plus a finished basement.
I would not recommend a steam system for a private residence unless it's very big and you are very rich. For a smaller home a solar hydronic system would be a good option. I'm thinking of the latter for my own home. I'm licensed for steam and hot water gas fired boilers and after a lot of experience in install and maintenance with them I would go solar hands down for most applications other than big industrial or light commercial. Boilers are also subject to ALL kinds of hassles with state and local building authorities. Check into solar. . If you have any other questions I'd be happy to try and answer.
Forced hotwater hydronic heating systems are very nice. I far prefer it to forced hot air.
But for a back fit into an existing house a number of things must be considered.
It is not just the cost of the system itself. You will probably tear the house up a bit, getting the pipes installed. It helps to walk thru exactly how the piping will be run and what is probably going to have to be demo'd to get it in there. There is also a consideration of getting the right pitch into the piping, normally it is installed with a slight slope back toward the boiler, it is critical in some cases never to form a "trap" where the pipes can hold water if drained. From experience I can tell you, plumbers are horrible at deciding what the piping runs will be. Never, never allow them to put piping in that creates "head knockers and low box outs in rooms". So common sense is required, I haven't met that many plumbers that qualified in that catergory. I ALWAYS did it with a drawing as part of the contract, which specified the piping runs, plus lots of other do's and don'ts. You CAN have a horror show if you let them get off the reservation. The amount of tear up on an existing house can get to be pretty good in some cases. You can have a fairly good project outside of the plumbing work to get it all back together in some of the extreme cases. You MUST be extremely careful how them attempt to cut into the structure, a lot of them absolutely do not care.
Then there is the consideration of how many zones will be installed. Most modern houses have a different zone on each level. That requires a thermostat for each zone, normally it also has its own pump. The more zones, the more piping involved. Each level in effect is its own lil heating system, using a common boiler.
There are two different ways to install a zone. Those normally are install a pump, then either zone valves or a check valve system to ensure that pump only supplies water to its own zone as required. Personally I hate zone valves, they have a tendency to fail, are not exactly fool proof, I far prefer check valves be installed.
Then you have to decide what the actual heating element in each room will be. Baseboard heater, radiators, some type of radiant heat. Each has its own pro / cons, the costs can vary a lot depending on each method. The piping is also affected in its design by the final method of heating element used.
You also must become very versed in the equipment to be used. Over the years, things have changed terms of what is available. Today, some of the pumps are very low power compared to the past. Again it is critical that the piping design match the other equipment. Do not trust "Experts" to know exactly what they are doing. It is possible to get a very nice excellent system, it is also possible to get a mess. You better know a lot more than the basics up front. I can tell you a number of stories along these lines.
Forced hot water is extremely nice choice as a number of heating sources can feed it. Boiler in the basement oil or gas fired, multifueled systems, solar, geothermal, etc. Lots of good ways to make it a very efficient and secure heating choice.
If you already have forced hot air. Can also consider keeping some of that system for use as a central A/C if that is desired.
Costs can be all other lots. So much will depend on the details. A lot of those can be influenced in a positive manner depending on how much you also get involved. Especially if you can find things like radiators or heating elements for next to nothing.
I would not consider using steam heat for a house. Forced hot water is far more superior.
Forced hotwater hydronic heating systems are very nice. I far prefer it to forced hot air.
But for a back fit into an existing house a number of things must be considered.
It is not just the cost of the system itself. You will probably tear the house up a bit, getting the pipes installed. It helps to walk thru exactly how the piping will be run and what is probably going to have to be demo'd to get it in there. There is also a consideration of getting the right pitch into the piping, normally it is installed with a slight slope back toward the boiler, it is critical in some cases never to form a "trap" where the pipes can hold water if drained. From experience I can tell you, plumbers are horrible at deciding what the piping runs will be. Never, never allow them to put piping in that creates "head knockers and low box outs in rooms". So common sense is required, I haven't met that many plumbers that qualified in that catergory. I ALWAYS did it with a drawing as part of the contract, which specified the piping runs, plus lots of other do's and don'ts. You CAN have a horror show if you let them get off the reservation. The amount of tear up on an existing house can get to be pretty good in some cases. You can have a fairly good project outside of the plumbing work to get it all back together in some of the extreme cases. You MUST be extremely careful how them attempt to cut into the structure, a lot of them absolutely do not care.
Then there is the consideration of how many zones will be installed. Most modern houses have a different zone on each level. That requires a thermostat for each zone, normally it also has its own pump. The more zones, the more piping involved. Each level in effect is its own lil heating system, using a common boiler.
There are two different ways to install a zone. Those normally are install a pump, then either zone valves or a check valve system to ensure that pump only supplies water to its own zone as required. Personally I hate zone valves, they have a tendency to fail, are not exactly fool proof, I far prefer check valves be installed.
Then you have to decide what the actual heating element in each room will be. Baseboard heater, radiators, some type of radiant heat. Each has its own pro / cons, the costs can vary a lot depending on each method. The piping is also affected in its design by the final method of heating element used.
You also must become very versed in the equipment to be used. Over the years, things have changed terms of what is available. Today, some of the pumps are very low power compared to the past. Again it is critical that the piping design match the other equipment. Do not trust "Experts" to know exactly what they are doing. It is possible to get a very nice excellent system, it is also possible to get a mess. You better know a lot more than the basics up front. I can tell you a number of stories along these lines.
Forced hot water is extremely nice choice as a number of heating sources can feed it. Boiler in the basement oil or gas fired, multifueled systems, solar, geothermal, etc. Lots of good ways to make it a very efficient and secure heating choice.
If you already have forced hot air. Can also consider keeping some of that system for use as a central A/C if that is desired.
Costs can be all other lots. So much will depend on the details. A lot of those can be influenced in a positive manner depending on how much you also get involved. Especially if you can find things like radiators or heating elements for next to nothing.
I would not consider using steam heat for a house. Forced hot water is far more superior.
LMAO head knokers and box outs.....yea thats "getting off the res" alright. But yes, remodels need to be examined very carefully. Just a thought, but as this other poster mentioned, you DO have an operating forced air unit already in place and upgrading that unit to a more efficient and modern design is a far more cost effective plan than going hydronic (of any design) and will operate just as efficiently and not require extensive mods and new piping. Your existing ductwork will probably do nicely with little or no modification. The plumbing required for a hot water system will be a nightmare to design and install. I would still go solar if this type of heat is your hearts desire, but be ready for the above described heartburn and be certain to check your contractors credentials and be sure they HONESTLY know their stuff. On the other side there are an enormous amount of different high efficiency forced air units out there ( I personally like the Rheem units) to choose from , all the way up to 95-almost 99% ratings depending on how much you have to spend. Baseline efficiency is 80-85% now.
We swtiched from steam to hot water becuase no one would connect a replacement boiler to a steam ststem. They were too worried about liability if the old steam pipes failed. The cost was $14,000. We paid a bit more to upgrade to a Lochinvar Knight boiler (which has performed terribly - breaks down constantly). Our house is big. We heat around 4000 to 5000 square feet. We also had ducting installed for AC so you shoudl subtract about $2500, then pro rate the suare footage to get some sort of ballpark of what it might cost.
If you also decide to "upgrade" to a Lochinvar KNight boiler, be sure to find out where your local repair center is located and get a WRITTTEN warrantyy from the installer that covers labor (Lochinvar warranty only covers parts). If you cannto get a labor warranty from the installer, than I would not go with Lochinvar.
First, to all readers, Cosmic did forget to inform you will your roof support the panels? If not, right there is a huge expense of replacement. Also, do you live in a community with a homeowners association? If so, they may not allow solar panels.
Onto the next. Will all of your duct work have to be inspected. If problems are noticed it will have to be replaced (which can be tremendously expensive) if you want top efficiency for your home. Also, with duct work regardless if you are heating or cooling your home, there usually areas where the hot/cold air will be trapped, lowering the efficiency of heating/cooling your home. Should you still want air conditioning, yes you may need duct work done and possibly replaced. Once again pushing your cost up tremendously, but may be totally worth it for your situation. Another thing to consider, as you may know already, forced air is a horrible dust maker, be it cool or hot. Should you want solar panels, which really is not a bad idea as long as they can use the sun efficiently. We formerly lived in Syracuse, New York which is horribly cold in the winter with very little sun for 5 months so solar for us up there would have been foolish, but check pricing in your area and consider where you live, ie. Minnesota which only would benifit in the few months months of superb weather, for best results though solar panels do collect in cloudy conditions (still not the best for Upstate NY. Solar panels also require attaching them to your roof which can also "rip" up your roof when adding it. The use of the word "ripping" isn't quite the word I would choose. No matter what you choose there will always be some kind of mess made, water pipes, ductwork or roofing. With the solar choice, should you be considered about the aesthetics of the outside of your home, remember that you will have panels on your roof. I'm truly not downing solar energy but there are some downsides to it. Yes it is cleaner to use, unless you consider the making of the panels. Although pollution related to solar energy systems is far less compared to other sources of energy, solar energy can be associated with pollution. Transportation and installation of solar systems have been associated with the emission of greenhouse gases. There are also some toxic materials and hazardous products used during the manufacturing process of solar photovoltaic systems, which can indirectly affect the environment. Nevertheless, solar energy pollutes far less than other alternative energy sources.
My husband and I live in a home that was built in 1927 and were looking at a heat pump, however, not any longer. Living in North Carolina we could benefit from solar with two pluses, our roof was replaced last year and mand do we get sun! The cost of a new boiler which uses natural gas (a whole ton load cheaper than any electric, at least in our area of NC) and water piping is still cheaper than having duct work replaced, even with the mess. You also have to consider, if you'd like, separate zoning for rooms. Can solar power offer that. The cost of the pipes will be higher, but the advantage is that if you are not using a certain room, you can offer separate zoning the heat/ac down or up as needed, such as your kitchen which you don't usually want that warmer than the rest of the house but you still want the bathroom warmer when you get out of your shower. These are other things to consider. Please, RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH everything including your contractor. DO NOT jus go by statements in a forum. I hope this helps others, for I am just a homeowner that has started the process.
Here are some links to read and consider: [url]https://www.citylab.com/life/2016/04/want-solar-panels-on-your-roof-heres-what-you-need-to-know/476805/[/url]
I might be one of the few who likes steam heat. For a very specific reason: with the right gas or wood boiler it requires no electricity to operate. No pumps. And a steam radiator will make a room warm (as will hot water radiators, both are far superior in my view to baseboard heaters).
Our house had steam heat before we moved it. Steam is a wonderful heat. Simple. Works all the time. No stupid computers to fail. The heat is very even, the house heats really fast and stays heated even when people go in and out. The steam leaks out a bit here and there (not that you can see, tiny amounts and helps keep the house reasonably humid. It was wonderful.
Downside is the radiators and pipes are super hot. They will burn you. You really need radiator covers.
Hot water is safer, but you need pumps and it does not heat up the house as fast, does not add as much humidity. As mentioned our fancy hot water boiler was a nightmare for several years until the manufacturer came out and reprogrammed it. It has worked great since then.
We never did put in the AC machine. Not really needed here and when it gets really hot (like today) they have to restrict your electrical use due to demand, so you cannot use it on the super hot days anyway. (Just go jump in the pool and stay there).
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. If you have any other questions I'd be happy to try and answer.
Lots of things to know.....
