Toilet setting question for you plumbers (flooring, Home Depot, tank, drains)

[lakerat]

I figured I'd throw this question out for you plumbers out there.
Here is my situation.

We just replaced our bathroom floor with slate tile. We bought a new toilet. The toilet flange is flush with the floor level. The top of the flange is 4", then tapers down to 3 3/8" (top 1" of the flange, then tapers down to 2 3/4" two more inches down.

I first tried a regular reenforced wax ring but did not shim the toilet. It leaked.

Then I cleaned it and tried a Fernco waxless seal. Still did not shim the toilet. It leaked.

Then I tried a Fluidmaster waxless seal. I did shim the toilet this time. It leaked.

Then I went back to a Fernco waxless seal and added a rubber doughnut ring 3/8 inch thick around the bottom sleave on the Frenco seal. I did shim the toilet this time too. I am still getting a slight trace of a leak, even with this set up.

The strange part is water is collecting above the johnny bolt nuts.

I am now wondering if I use my last set up (Fernco seal with the doughnut ring), and then add a regular wax seal if that might solve my problem.

I guess if that doesn't work I'll have to call a plumber.

Any advice from any of you plumbers?

Thanks for any responses.

[BobKovacs]

I think you've got a problem with your toilet- not with the wax ring. It's a miracle that the flange is flush with the flooring- they're usually buried below multiple layers of flooring- so you're starting off in fairly good place. There's something wrong if you can't get a good seal with all of the combinations you've tried.

[Cosmic]

Some of the things you say don't seem to add up. It should have worked.

The water seems to appear at the bolt holes, not at some point around the flange. But it does appear from the various tries that the problem is in the general area of the flange.

First make sure the water is not leaking from the tank to bowl interface and running down the bowl somehow, can be weird and make you think there is a leak at the general flange area.

I suspect it might be because of the way some of the new toilets are being built these days. The cone that sticks down in flange hole as part of the toilet on the bottom is a tad short on some toilets. Somehow when you place the toilet the gap between the flange and toilet is a bit bigger than nomal. In other words you would be better off if the drain flange was not so flush with the tile surface but stuck up a wee bit like they do in some cases.

I would try this. Reset it up with the waxless seal and put the rubber doughnut back in. Take some of the wax and put a tad of it as a ring on the bottom of the toilet. Use a putty knife and butter up the waxless seal affair with wax to fill in any void areas. Using the wax ring whole is probably too much. Pay attention to where the bolts are and butter those areas well with wax.

Put the toilet in and sit down on it firm a couple of times before snugging up the bolts. Can even get up on it with your feet on the lid and wiggle a bit. This lets the entire affair try to find the best fit with the parts as used, sort of one of those paths of least resistance deals. Snug up the bolt on one side, do the other, sit back down on it, snug them a bit more. Use alternate snugs either side, don't do one side all at once. Go until it feels very firm but do not over torque, can break the toilet. Snug as long as it seems to "Give".

Even if it leaks a tad, would not remove, they can seal with further use if it is a minor leak. Would continue for a few days. The more you sit the better it usually gets, can go back and check the torque in a few days.

I assume this is a fairly new design toilet with only the two bolts. Same deal if it has more bolts. Snug them down even, ensure all bolts actually got some grip. Strange how many times they are the screw in bolts to the wood floor and the floor is rotten. Again I assume you were describing bolts using the flange were used.

One of those deals, follow what seems to work and give Mother Nature time to help you out.

[lakerat]

Thanks for the advice. The more I think about it the more I think it is a bad toilet. This is some fancy smooth sided Italian toilet. It is a one piece toilet, meaning it does not have a seperate tank that bolts onto the bowl. Access for the jonny bolts are a small port on each side of the smooth side and then a little half moon cover velcros to the side of the smooth side below the bowl itself to conceal the top of the bolt and the nut. This is where I am getting water. On the top surface where the nut tightens down inside the small access port. That is why I am thinking the toilet is bad because the water is leaking at about one inch higher elevation that where it drains into the floor drain.

I appologize for not being able to better explain my situation.
Thanks again for your suggestions.

[Cosmic]

That was why I said lather that area of the bolts up with wax.

If that cone area on the toilet is not quite right you can have problems.

If I understand it right that outlet area mght not be the same as normal toilets. Still would give a shot, sometimes you depend more on experience figuring out something that will work.

Just had that a couple of months ago in an Old Victorian. Super ancient hopper. Wax rings were not sealing it right, waxless couldn't fit in. Four bolter with two of them not grabbing right.

Did that trick of sculpting the wax into a shape using the old stuff and a new ring that I thought it wanted. Played with all the bolts to get them to grab unto something firm.

Wasn't pretty but it worked. Are you sure the bolts are pulling it down firm????

Another trick is to set a couple of pieces of 2 x 4 beside the hole. Set the toilet and that gives enough space to peek in and make sure the mating surfaces are going to wind up exactly how / where you think they are.

Tough to describe but I never had one that I couldn't get to seal.

[lakerat]

I can't seem to post an image of the toilet but it is a Porcher 97220 model. The water is appearing just inside the little half moon covers on the side of the toilet where the johnny bolt nuts cinch the toilet down. What is baffling me is how the water can be accumulating at a higher level than the seal/wax ring where it drails into the flange unless the toilet is faulty.

BTW, I have tried setting the toilet up on two 2x4s directly over the flange and making sure the allignment was correct. Then I raised the toilet about 1/4 inch while my wife slid the 2x4s out.

I think the Home Depot Expo store we bought it at is going to replace it with a new toilet. I spoke with their manager yesterday and he assured me he would make things right for us.

Thanks again for the advice.

[lakerat]

Update: OK, I contacted the tech support people at Porcher (the manufaturer) and explained what was happening and where the water was accumulating. From my description they determined there was probably a leak in the trap line and approved a credit for a new toilet. I went back to the Home Depot Expo Design Center and picked up a new toilet, no problem.

I'll update in a couple hours.

[lakerat]

Update:

Set the new toilet at about 10:00 this morning. Everything is working good with no leaks. So, it was the toilet's fault afterall, and not mine.

Thanks ya'll for your advice.