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Old 04-19-2008, 01:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
So if I am understanding you correctly, keep the fan on all winter but not in the summer right?

I have no issue cleaning the ducts once in a while. We bought this house 2 years ago and it has been SO dusty, needing to be dusted daily, we cleaned the ducts and now I need to dust about every 2 weeks. The ducts had never been cleaned--they were still full of drywall dust from when it was built 12 years ago.

Thanks!


The fan constantly running just keeps the temps more even. If you have ceiling fans turning it on when your in the room and cutting it off when you leave would be more efficient unless you wanted the whole house temps even.

Ducts shouldn't need to be cleaned often except the return as it's before the filter/wet evap coil (that act's as a filter in itself) Slight buildup in the duct work is not harmful as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

The blower wheel and evaporator coil/air handle/furnace should be looked at every cooling/heating season.
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:38 AM
 
Location: Fuquay-Varina
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If you had your ducts cleaned, and they are flexible ridged ductwork as usually found in a 12 year old house, then your ducts are not going to be very clean. The technique is a borderline scam unless you have rigid, uninsulated metal ductwork simply because the ridges, trap the debris. The only sure way to have clean flexible duct is by replacing it. Plenty of studies online to read over the finer details.
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacredgrooves View Post
If you had your ducts cleaned, and they are flexible ridged ductwork as usually found in a 12 year old house, then your ducts are not going to be very clean. The technique is a borderline scam unless you have rigid, uninsulated metal ductwork simply because the ridges, trap the debris. The only sure way to have clean flexible duct is by replacing it. Plenty of studies online to read over the finer details.
While that may be, only know what I know. I was needing to dust daily before we had our ducts cleaned and now I can go about 2 weeks before I need to dust. That is good enough for me. No, you don't need it done frequently. The duct cleaner guy said once you get them done you really don't need to do them again unless you are doing some construction, specifically drywalling. I know they are not perfectly clean but they are clean enough.. I am not sure what the difference between the two types of duct work you are talking about but our ducts are sheet metal and I don't think they are flexible.
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Old 04-19-2008, 07:11 AM
 
3,020 posts, read 25,741,843 times
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Default Are them ducts really clean.......????

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
What are booties?
Just a way of building a prefilter to keep the return ducts from getting messed up. Only for the brave who will risk life and limb and terrors to be unmentioned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
While that may be, only know what I know. I was needing to dust daily before we had our ducts cleaned and now I can go about 2 weeks before I need to dust. That is good enough for me. No, you don't need it done frequently. The duct cleaner guy said once you get them done you really don't need to do them again unless you are doing some construction, specifically drywalling. I know they are not perfectly clean but they are clean enough.. I am not sure what the difference between the two types of duct work you are talking about but our ducts are sheet metal and I don't think they are flexible.
Hate to tell you this but no amount of vacuuming is probably going to clean them return ducts. Especially as SacredGrooves sezs, they have any type of ribbed walls. The ducts tend to get a sort of oil coat. Comes from cooking vapors, normal human activities. It can feel sort of like a thin tar to the touch if you got it bad. "Duct Cleaning" is probably best done by looking impressive, making some noise and then putting out your hand. Smile and give Expert Advice. Good work if you can get it.

I cleaned my return ducts real good when I upgraded the system. The returns are formed using the floor joist voids and putting sheet metal over those to form a return all the way across the room. Big suckers, you can look down in there with a flashlight, no amount of vacuuming or poking with rags on poles, would get the junk out completely. Wound up disassembling, scrubbing with burlup and cleaning solutions. A prefilter system to keep all the junk out is your best protection. Builder should have protected the system but that is probably to much to ask in today's World.

If you got drywall dust in there lots of luck. Sounds like more amateur time, there is a way to do drywall with virtually no free dust. It involves using a vacuum sanding system. Pretty simple, plus putting fans in to negatively pressurize the room. Whole lot better than trying to deal with the dust afterwards. Not good for your lungs either as a worker, even with a dust mask. The equipment is cheap, you can do drywall in a room with an occupied house, no sweat. Some guys never get the word.

If you get the furnace all gunked up, usually have to do a tear down to get at the parts. Not something you can get at easy on many systems. Another thing to watch out for with forced hot air if you have a direct vent system. Lil bugs love to crawl in those pipes. Especially them Love Bug critters, certain types of bees try to build nests in there. Will get sucked into the system next heating season. I stuff a rag in mine after each season. Would be nice to find a fitting with the proper screen.

I hate forced hot air and I have a nice new modern high efficiency system with no humidity problems. Give me them cast iron radiators going Bong any day.

Running that fan all the time, seems to me an attempt to make up for the short comings of a less desirable form of heating. The open question being what other problems might that create. Murphy's Laws are always in force.
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Old 04-20-2008, 11:23 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,489,971 times
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Are the ducts outside of the conditioned space? attic? crawlspace?

When you have a leak in a supply duct that is outside the conditioned home you are piping air that would normally be in the home outside of it cause a negative pressure in the home to pull in debris/dust in the cracks and crevices and yes even construction debris from many many moons ago when the house was built.....it may have just sprung the leak bring that stuff into the home.

If your ducts are in the attic check to see if they are sealed....and not with tape (what happens to adhesive when it's really really hot like in an attic?)

Look at this .pdf and notice page 5 "common air leaks". Now imagine if your duct work in the attic sprung a leak and pressurized the attic space while putting the conditioned space in a negative pressure. All the arrows that are points losses in an upward direction would be pulling the opposite way and bring hot attic air and debris into the home if all those leaks are not sealed up like in most home.

There is a requirement for air exchange for conditioned space to purge indoor pollutants. It's 25% of the total volume of the home in one hour.

Let's just say for example you have a 3,000 sq ft house with 8ft cielings.
24,000 cubic feet of air.
If your duct's leak 10% on a 3 ton HVAC system that is moving the amount of air it should to work properly it would leak:

400 cubic feet of air per minute per ton = So the system move 1200 CFM
1200 CFM x 10% for duct leakeage is 120 CFM.
120 CFM x 60 to convert to hourly loss = 7200 CF of air or 33% exchange rate with just the system alone.....that doesn't take into account any other items that may be adding the that exchange rate like bath exhaust or range hood exhaust/vent....doors opening....ect...ect...



Same can be said if you have a return plenum/duct run that is in the attic with a leak it will suck attic air into the return stream and force it all the way through the entire home through the duct work.....just the return and supply change jobs.


No offense but I'm not sure I would want to add any more restriction the the return side without verifying it can take it. The recommended velocity for noise on return ducts is 300-400 feet per minute at 500 fpm it sounds like a vacuum and much higher produces whistling and sucking in the filter or moisture being pulled from the evap. coil onto insulation or other items near the coil.

When designing a return you have a factor called A/K that is supplied from the grille mfg. This accounts for effective area of a grille or filter grille. A/K factor is basically sq ft but it is of effective area and not total area meaning it only accounts for the small openings in the grille.

12 x 20 grill....looking at total A/K is 1.666 sq ft....actual effective for it from the mfg is .92 sq ft.....so why is this important?

using that effective area and a fpm requirement of 300 that grille can only support 276/cfm...simply done by multiplying fpm by the A/K factor to get a volume or cubic feet.

With two of those return grilles you can move 276/cfm x 2 or 552 cfm @ 300 fpm and minimal noise (probably not even noticeable) That's only enough for 1.5 ton unit......

For a 3 ton system you need 400cfm/ton or 1200 cfm remember. if you want your system to be as quiet as possible you would need

4 sq ft worth of effective area. Looking on my specification sheet for the return grille you would need 2-20" x 20" grilles...which is slightly less than 4 sq ft......My point is almost none of the systems you ever find are designed this way. They almost always push the 400-500 fpm which cause the noise issues mentioned and leave almost no room when the filter starts to get clogged.....CFM drops...system effectiveness drops...air feels colder coming out of vents .........power bill rises......eventually coil freezes and causes a problem.

When it's designed for 300 fpm it gives you the air you need and removes the noise you don't. If you like those pleated filters or real thick media filters you must account for them in the design of the return grill by making it larges because of the large pressure drop they cause.




Sorry for the long post kinda hard to explain anything without some of the basics.

Hart & Cooley - Products - Residential & Commercial Grilles, Registers & Diffusers;* B-Vent Gas Vents, All-Fuel Chimney and Chimney Liners; Flexible Ducts

Last edited by BigJon3475; 04-20-2008 at 11:31 AM.. Reason: add link for Hart and Cooley
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