HVAC......Arcoaire vs Payne? (AC, heat, paint color, installed)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We are having a new split system installed. I am trying to figure out which unit is going to be the most reliable. We don't need all the bells and whistles and the price that comes with it. We just need a unit that will last. If you have any other suggestions that maybe better along the same price range, please share. I keep hearing they are all the same or similar but when I read reviews on any unit, they are terrible.
They use the same parts. Payne is made by Carrier, and Arcoaire is made by ICP... but Carrier owns stake in ICP. If you’ll notice the units look exactly the same, the only difference is paint color and labels.
I just had a GrandAire (also an ICP brand) installed in a rental, and its the same unit as the Payne in my own home. ICP has about a dozen different brands they sell under... Tempstar, Comfortmaker, Heil, ArcoAire, Day & Night, GrandAire, etc... they’re all the same as a basic Carrier.
They use the same parts. Payne is made by Carrier, and Arcoaire is made by ICP... but Carrier owns stake in ICP. If you’ll notice the units look exactly the same, the only difference is paint color and labels.
I just had a GrandAire (also an ICP brand) installed in a rental, and its the same unit as the Payne in my own home. ICP has about a dozen different brands they sell under... Tempstar, Comfortmaker, Heil, ArcoAire, Day & Night, GrandAire, etc... they’re all the same as a basic Carrier.
For some reason, the reviews are slightly better for ArcoAire. They call Payne a budget unit and ArcoAire a standard unit. The HVAC tech sells Payne units but said he doesn't mind which I go with. He basically said they are all the same as well.
One of these is an ArcoAire and the other is a Payne. Notice they’re the same unit except for the paint (the Payne is a little taller due to more tonnage). These are both considered “builders grade” units, which I tend to prefer since they’re less complicated, it doesnt mean that they’re bad in any way. They won’t have the variable speed compressor and all that fancy mumbo jumbo.
Last edited by southernnaturelover; 03-22-2019 at 04:00 PM..
One of these is an ArcoAire and the other is a Payne. Notice they’re the same unit except for the paint (the Payne is a little taller due to more tonnage). These are both considered “builders grade” units, which I tend to prefer since they’re less complicated, it doesnt mean that they’re bad in any way. They won’t have the variable speed compressor and all that fancy mumbo jumbo.
One of these is an ArcoAire and the other is a Payne. Notice they’re the same unit except for the paint (the Payne is a little taller due to more tonnage). These are both considered “builders grade” units, which I tend to prefer since they’re less complicated, it doesnt mean that they’re bad in any way. They won’t have the variable speed compressor and all that fancy mumbo jumbo.
I wish builders grade didn’t always mean poor quality. But even on some extremely expensive houses we’ve seen, the builders are using budget 14 SEER units in a desert climate which is below what I’d ever tolerate in a home in 2018. Variable speed isn’t an optional thing anymore, that’s the basics, and what I’d call an average, mediocre unit would have 4 speeds or whatever. That’s still not good, by any means. Our current system is variable to 1% increments so it’s never wasting any energy beyond what it must to do its job. But if a system is just on / off it’ll never lead to adequate AC anywhere because it’ll always move between too warm and too cold while turning itself on and off repeatedly and ruining the unit itself much faster than would happen with a better system.
Despite Carrier being such a big company, I don’t know if they have a luxury brand but every time I hear Carrier I shudder and that would probably make the founder turn in his grave. Their products are almost always budget, inefficient, minimum quality systems versus the high end offerings that use modern technology offered by Trane and Lennox.
I wish builders grade didn’t always mean poor quality. But even on some extremely expensive houses we’ve seen, the builders are using budget 14 SEER units in a desert climate which is below what I’d ever tolerate in a home in 2018. Variable speed isn’t an optional thing anymore, that’s the basics, and what I’d call an average, mediocre unit would have 4 speeds or whatever. That’s still not good, by any means. Our current system is variable to 1% increments so it’s never wasting any energy beyond what it must to do its job. But if a system is just on / off it’ll never lead to adequate AC anywhere because it’ll always move between too warm and too cold while turning itself on and off repeatedly and ruining the unit itself much faster than would happen with a better system.
Despite Carrier being such a big company, I don’t know if they have a luxury brand but every time I hear Carrier I shudder and that would probably make the founder turn in his grave. Their products are almost always budget, inefficient, minimum quality systems versus the high end offerings that use modern technology offered by Trane and Lennox.
I disagree with you. Those 19 or higher SEER units will never save enough in energy to offset the thousands in extra equipment and repair costs. My 15 SEER Payne is a simple on/off unit and I’m perfectly happy with the amount of energy it uses.
I disagree with you. Those 19 or higher SEER units will never save enough in energy to offset the thousands in extra equipment and repair costs. My 15 SEER Payne is a simple on/off unit and I’m perfectly happy with the amount of energy it uses.
The difference in SEER is all math from there to find savings (you have to know the Seer of the entire system, not just the outdoor unit though). It will depend upon climate, what you are cooling to, and size of system.
That said, for me, the difference in cost from a base builder grade 14 seer to a 19 seer in my size and my climate (Northern Virginia) was paid back in energy usage in about 10-11 years. Hopefully, less than the life of the system. That said, I paid up front and get the savings over the years, which makes it less in favor of going to the 19 seer unit. But I live in an area where we use A/C for 5-6 months of the year. Living somewhere where it gets more use would drastically change that.
The multiple stages are much more about comfort than cost savings. Running at reduced power when full power is not needed allows the system to run longer, which will help dehumidify and circulate the air more making it more comfortable at the same temperature. It will also be quieter and less 'drafty' in many cases.
There might be some small savings, particularly with the variable speed fans, but the same seer system is the same seer system regardless of the number of stages. It takes the same energy to cool the house down 1/2 a degree, you can just go full power for a short time, or partial power for a longer time.
We are having a new split system installed. I am trying to figure out which unit is going to be the most reliable. We don't need all the bells and whistles and the price that comes with it. We just need a unit that will last. If you have any other suggestions that maybe better along the same price range, please share. I keep hearing they are all the same or similar but when I read reviews on any unit, they are terrible.
Never heard of either of them. Just got a Trane XR14 (2-Ton) installed and it stands up very well to NC summers. Got my humidity down to 39% while it was at it
Entry level Trane units have a standard Copeland scroll compressor (popular in other traditional split systems / heat pumps) and no proprietary RotoLock units as with the ones featuring a multi-speed or variable-speed compressor - if that matters to you. Real simple.
I disagree with you. Those 19 or higher SEER units will never save enough in energy to offset the thousands in extra equipment and repair costs. My 15 SEER Payne is a simple on/off unit and I’m perfectly happy with the amount of energy it uses.
I think its more about the ability to cool, quickly, to a temperature he's happy with, and not thinking about taxing the unit longterm.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
