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So true, generally if your electric power source uses coal to generate power , your rates maybe cheap enough to go with an electric boiler.
At rate like 12 cents/kWh it's about $35 per million BTU. Coal in say Maine at $300 per ton is going to be about $15 per million BTU. Locally in the Northeastern Pennsylvania area which is the source for anthracite you're looking at $160 per ton so it's more in the $8 range per million BTU. You can look up any of these on the calculator, you only really need to know what your local rates are for the fuel type.
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The nice thing about my electric boiler is , no mess , no venting required , and overall less expensive to purchase and install.
Just make sure when you price the coal you're pricing anthracite. You're only going to find it in the Northeast and depending on your location it's going to be between $160 to $350 per ton. The soft coal might only be in the $60 range but it's not very suitable for home heating unless you live in rural area and don't mind putting up with the smell and soot. Buying in bulk is always cheaper and you can even purchase it yourself if close enough to the breaker, usually in areas outside of Northeast Pennsylvania you can only get it in bags. Delivery is a toss up outside Northeast PA.
Just make sure when you price the coal you're pricing anthracite. You're only going to find it in the Northeast and depending on your location it's going to be between $160 to $350 per ton. The soft coal might only be in the $60 range but it's not very suitable for home heating unless you live in rural area and don't mind putting up with the smell and soot. Buying in bulk is always cheaper and you can even purchase it yourself if close enough to the breaker, usually in areas outside of Northeast Pennsylvania you can only get it in bags. Delivery is a toss up outside Northeast PA.
I remember the old days , and my Grand parents " coal room". There was ourside steel door that the coal truck would back up to , and the helper was in the back shoveling into the basement coal room. All that was a dirty mess as I recall.
Most people converted to auto feed and then later , change over to gas. Its strange how the Northeast , still runs on direct heat coal....and fuel oil.
It depends, anthracite is thoroughly washed when it leaves the breaker. If you took a piece once it comes out of there and let it dry it would be perfectly dust free. It's glass like, the trouble is it falls off the chute after processing, the loader comes over, then it gets dumped into the truck, then down the chute into the basement.... every step of this process creates a little more dust.
Generally any coal you're going to get is going to be damp and if close to the breaker it may even be very wet, this will prevent most of the dust during delivery. It's also a good idea to dampen the inside of the bin before delivery. After it dries you can use a small garden type sprayer to wet the coal that you intend on using. Water has no effect on it's ability to burn, while oin the topic this is one advantage over wood or pellets. You can store it anywhere, even outside on the ground exposed....
They also have oiled coal, they use a cheap vegetable type oil made for industrial purposes. The bonus there is your neighbors smell pop corn for the entire winter. LOL
The ultimate solution is build an enclosed hopper that will self feed onto the stove, you'll note the tube coming out of the unit I posted above. This tube contains an auger so you could just build a ginat hopper on top of it.
Having said all that from my understanding it's no more dirt or mess than wood or wood pellets and would even be less if you set it up right. I've used neither, this is what I gathered from others that have used both.
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Its strange how the Northeast , still runs on direct heat coal....and fuel oil.
It's a small amount using coal, if all of the production of anthracite went to homes you might heat 600K homes at the most. Maybe 25% use it as main source of heat. Generally they will be using small stoker or hand fired stove as "supplementary" heat similar to how people utilize a wood or pellet stove. I put supplenetary in quotes because it really becomes the main source with the central heating becoming the backup.
Last edited by thecoalman; 09-20-2010 at 02:25 AM..
It depends, anthracite is thoroughly washed when it leaves the breaker. If you took a piece once it comes out of there and let it dry it would be perfectly dust free. It's glass like, the trouble is it falls off the chute after processing, the loader comes over, then it gets dumped into the truck, then down the chute into the basement.... every step of this process creates a little more dust.
Generally any coal you're going to get is going to be damp and if close to the breaker it may even be very wet, this will prevent most of the dust during delivery. It's also a good idea to dampen the inside of the bin before delivery. After it dries you can use a small garden type sprayer to wet the coal that you intend on using. Water has no effect on it's ability to burn, while oin the topic this is one advantage over wood or pellets. You can store it anywhere, even outside on the ground exposed....
They also have oiled coal, they use a cheap vegetable type oil made for industrial purposes. The bonus there is your neighbors smell pop corn for the entire winter. LOL
The ultimate solution is build an enclosed hopper that will self feed onto the stove, you'll note the tube coming out of the unit I posted above. This tube contains an auger so you could just build a ginat hopper on top of it.
Having said all that from my understanding it's no more dirt or mess than wood or wood pellets and would even be less if you set it up right. I've used neither, this is what I gathered from others that have used both.
It's a small amount using coal, if all of the production of anthracite went to homes you might heat 600K homes at the most. Maybe 25% use it as main source of heat. Generally they will be using small stoker or hand fired stove as "supplementary" heat similar to how people utilize a wood or pellet stove. I put supplementary in quotes because it really becomes the main source with the central heating becoming the backup.
I have a wood stove for additional heat, and underfloor Pex , electric fired boiler. Am very happy with the combo. Coal is best left to the Power Plant, its a bulk commodity that is most efficient delivered by freighter , or in train cars.... the old days when as kids we walked the rails with our sacks , picking up coal that fell from the train...are history.
With a properly installed smoke /air pollution stack arrested system , coal fired plants can work well in our environment. I have been working for years within the air pollution control Industry , the problem , Government keeps delaying the requirements for the Power Plants to conform. We just delivered a huge system to North Dakota Power Plant, but a lot of others are in the waiting stage due to the Power Lobby. This has been going on for many years, we get a good run , then everything stops, its disgusting!
You can replace the oil tank yourself. You can buy a 250 gal tank for about $500. All you need are a few wrenches. A pipe wrench for the intake and vent pipe and a smaller one to detach the oil line where you see the filter at the bottom of one side of the tank. Move the old tank away and put the new one in postion, tighten the nuts, and your done. Just be sure your pipes line up to the new tank before you buy it, unless you will need to adjust the piping and that takes a bit more skill. DOn't pump out all of your old oil since there will be a lot of setiment and it will gum up your filter. Leabve about the last 20 gallon in there and pump it out later and strain it if you want to use it. When you see the bottom of the tank contents you will know what I mean..
$1300 is a rip off. A crew should be able to install a new tank in about one to 2 hrs. At the wholesale cost of a new tank $350, allowing for the installer to jack up the tank price to $500, and even 2 hrs of labor, shold be no more than $750
If you're in the Northeast US consider a coal boiler, I know.... Coal? LOL
Seriously, a modern coal boiler is not much different than a regular boiler and the long term cost savings are substantial. In a lot areas much cheaper than wood pellets so you could just get rid of it. Since you're familiar with the operation of a pellet stove it's not much different. Put fuel in one end and take the ashes out of the other. A coal stoker does require a lot less maintenance though, usually once a year. Most people witha boiler likie this one burn them year round for the DHW and it will add many decdes to it's lifetime. Burned 24/7/365 it's a lifetime worth of heat.
Efficiency is part of the equation but it's not what you want to consider when comparing costs, electric is 100% efficient because 100% of the heat generated is utilized. For solid and liquid fuels since we need to vent the combustion gases you're losing heat out of the chimney so it's not as efficient. Coal stokers are in the 80% to 85% range and one almost reaches 90%.
What you need to know is the cost per BTU adjusted for efficiency. There's calculator I have here that will do the calculations based on the costs of fuels in your area:
I had a HS Tarm coal boiler in 1980 and it took a little time to get used to the operation. I had been burning wood. I learned to get the fire going, get up to critical mass, and shovel in the coal, shut the door and LEAVE IT ALONE.
The only drawback I found was it produced much more ash than wood and unlike wood ash, it isn't good for the garden or to bury in the soil. So disposal was a problem.
If you are in the north woods, and wood is plentiful, the HS Tarm may be for you as well. I have one and it produces no creosote in the chimney beccause it is a gassification boiler. Creosote collects in the firebox but it is easy to scrape off the walls.
You may want to consider a geo thermal system. You can lay a grid out in your yard about 4 -8 feet deep and pump water through that grid that comes into the home and is run through a compressor to heat your home. When the water comes in at about 50 Degree F and you run it trhough a compressor, you can get 160 degree hot water for little electricity. It's like runnning a refrigerator compressor. Here is a link for them and they are "very Green" systems.
Geothermal heating and cooling uses the relatively constant temperature of the earth to heat and cool homes and businesses with 40% to 70% less energy than conventional systems. While conventional furnaces and boilers burn a fuel to generate heat, geothermal heat pumps use electricity to simply move heat from the earth into buildings, allowing much higher efficiencies. The most efficient fuel-burning heater can reach efficiencies around 95%, but a geothermal heat pump can move up to 4 units of heat for every unit of electricity needed to power the system, resulting in a practical equivalence of over 400% efficiency.
You may want to consider a geo thermal system. You can lay a grid out in your yard about 4 -8 feet deep and pump water through that grid that comes into the home and is run through a compressor to heat your home. When the water comes in at about 50 Degree F and you run it trhough a compressor, you can get 160 degree hot water for little electricity. It's like runnning a refrigerator compressor. Here is a link for them and they are "very Green" systems.
Geothermal heating and cooling uses the relatively constant temperature of the earth to heat and cool homes and businesses with 40% to 70% less energy than conventional systems. While conventional furnaces and boilers burn a fuel to generate heat, geothermal heat pumps use electricity to simply move heat from the earth into buildings, allowing much higher efficiencies. The most efficient fuel-burning heater can reach efficiencies around 95%, but a geothermal heat pump can move up to 4 units of heat for every unit of electricity needed to power the system, resulting in a practical equivalence of over 400% efficiency.
No doubt , its the comming thing. But as I said , it takes a huge yard for a ground loop. There are also some new air to air heat pumps out there that will work in cold climates. I almost bought one , but could not find anyone to install it. The price was right however. There are a lot of em in Canada, and more are coming on the market as the tech improves.... Bottom line , getting the cost down has been a problem , for almost all the clean, low opertating and matainence products.
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Since you're familiar with the operation of a pellet stove it's not much different. Put fuel in one end and take the ashes out of the other. A coal stoker does require a lot less maintenance though, usually once a year. Most people witha boiler likie this one burn them year round for the DHW and it will add many decdes to it's lifetime. Burned 24/7/365 it's a lifetime worth of heat.
