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I have a late 90s Honda Civic sedan with manual transmission that I use mostly for city/short freeway commutes. It has almost 85,000 miles. I live in an area that has winter and with that comes road salt and other abrasives. It's been rust proofed with grease twice...some rust spots are showing, but the body is solid overall. The rust has attacked the exhaust though and the muffler + center pipe were replaced. The catalytic converter has an oxygen sensor attached to it and is located about halfway between the engine and the muffler, so easy to access.
The problem that's gotten worse over the past few months is that the pipe leading to the exhaust manifold is loose, it's noisy and the fumes leak into the passenger compartment. It smells bad and I understand the CO and other harmful gases are potentially being breathed in. I can take public transit or have it repaired...but that's the dilemma...haven't had much luck with that yet.
I browsed craigslist and another free classifieds site and found some indepedent mechanics who offer mobile service at a community garage where they rent the space or come to you and charge around $25-40/hr.
The car has already been on a lift at a muffler chain shop where they charge $68/hr and the problems were pointed out. But of course the mechanic pointed out extra problems like supposedly worn ball joints and I think he tried to pad the bill with scare tactics like if I keep driving, the wheels will fall off and I'll crash..or if they try to repair just the leaking pipe around the exhaust and replace bolts, gaskets, the pipe will break at the catalytic converter, etc.
Excluding the ball joints, the estimate was $550 at the muffler shop. When I balked at the price, the manager lowered it to $525 but still expensive and perhaps some unnecessary replacement of certain parts to boost the bill.
I let them simply change the oil for around $25.
Now the thing is, I don't want to keep driving with a leaky noisy exhaust that can make me, or has made me sick. I noticed that since moving to my current apartment last summer, I've developed an occasional cough and I'm not sure if it's from the car or the fact my neighbors are smokers.
I had an appointment with a $25/hour independent mechanic but he flaked out this morning and said a transmission repair was taking longer than expected, so I should call him later this afternoon and we'll see. He's also over an hour away by public transit including walking 15 mins to the nearest bus stop, so not exactly convenient. Since he's unlicensed, I'm not sure I'd be wasting my money...though $25/hr isn't really that much.
I have a few options now:
a. Take it to the unlicensed mechanic and hope for the best
b. Take it to an independent garage that specializes in imports/Hondas
c. Take it back to the chain muffler shop and let them do the repair anyway, possibly getting fleeced
d. Take it to a certified Honda mechanic who doesn't repair exhausts, but offered to diagnose the problems and let me know what repairs were actually needed
e. Park it and take public transit until I can afford the repair/a less used car.
What would you advise? I use the car for work almost daily and taking public transit would be a hassle, although of course cheaper and potentially healthier (except that it's loud for my ears and you're surrounded by more people so can catch a cold more easily).
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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i agree with the others, get it fixed. Your engine and trans should go 200,000 miles if the body makes it that long.
The chain muffler shops are pushy at upselling, and have been known to make up problems that don't exist to pad the bill. Look for an independent muffler shop. I had an entire oversized dual exhaust system done on a big V8 truck for less than your quote. If you give your city, maybe someone can recommend an honest shop.
You should be able to find a place that will do it for alot less that $500. Start searching. They shouldn't charge anything to look at it and let you know whats wrong.
So I finally did something and went to a do it yourself garage where people who claim they're mechanics (not certified usually) that you can save money by letting them work on your car vs. going to $60-100/hr+ garages+dealers.
What was my experience? Yes the exhaust leak from the pipe the curls up towards the exhaust manifold was fixed, however the uncertified mechanic didn't have the necessary gaskets and just used exhaust cement which is like super glue. I know it's a temporary solution. Another mechanic walked by and saw what he was doing (an older guy claiming 20 yrs experience) and asked why my "mechanic" didn't just order the right gaskets and have me come back another day.
My mechanic didn't like that..and said he prefers to fix something right away, rather than customers come back. I think he just wants to make $$ right away rather than risk a customer not returning.
So anyway, after doing Band Aid solution repair and inspecting the wheels/suspension, going for a short test drive, my guy wanted $80. His advertised rate is $25/hr and he spent less than 2 hours on my car+a small tube of cement+some brake fluid top ups. I feel he overcharged because he spent less than 2 hrs+some material and IMO, it should have been $60 max. I also have a feeling the "cement" repair will eventually break whereas replacing the gaskets, even if I had to return would have been more effective. On the other hand I appreciated the fact he explained various components and gave a 2nd opinion to a chain muffler shop who claimed "I had to" spend almost $300 on a cat. converter because the pipe was going to break in the middle when it was loosed at the front. This do it yourself mechanic showed me otherwise.
The oxygen sensor is still broken (he cemented it to the catalytic converter) and needs to be replaced (it's what's causing the check engine light to come on) and now I'm concerned the converter might break when the O2 sensor needs to be replaced since this "mechanic" smeared the cement stuff all over it to supposedly plug the leak from where it enters the cat.
I'm thinking of going to an independent Honda garage where I know the price will be higher but at least I have a better chance that any repairs will be done right, the first time. I guess it's the old adage of you get what you pay for. Then again, this $25/hr guy did offer to change a wheel bearing, upper ball joints+a tie rod for around $25-35 each (prices to be verified)..for some groaning/humming and play in the wheels. I wonder if I should go back or go elsewhere.
Last edited by ValueAddedWorker; 04-13-2011 at 07:25 PM..
I'm thinking of going to an independent Honda garage where I know the price will be higher but at least I have a better chance that any repairs will be done right, the first time. I guess it's the old adage of you get what you pay for.
In your position, do this.
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Then again, this $25/hr guy did offer to change a wheel bearing, upper ball joints+a tie rod for around $25-35 each (prices to be verified)..for some groaning/humming and play in the wheels. I wonder if I should go back or go elsewhere.
After the patch job he did, do you trust him with something MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE IMPORTANT LIKE THE STEERING?!
I thought the oxy sensor screwed into the exhaust manifold not directly into the converter...Note civics of that year/model have had many issues with cracked manifolds...and rusty exhaust pipes..The whole thing is a simple repair, I did one last year on a 99 civic.Note if it has a cracked manifold it has to be replaced and no glue is going to work. Someone needs to take that guys glue and glue his fingers together so he wont be able to use a wrench..lol
After the patch job he did, do you trust him with something MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE IMPORTANT LIKE THE STEERING?!
Do you know what a proper tie rod, upper ball joints and wheel bearing repair entails? Someone told me that when replacing steering parts, a wheel alignment is needed and I should ensure that the mechanic working on my car has the equipment. Frankly I don't know if a wheel alignment is needed, do you?
Also for steering parts, it seemed like just replacing the parts seemed straight forward enough, how could he really mess something like that up?
By the way, so far the muffler cement temp fix has held and it's much better without the noise and smell in the passenger compartment. But I realize it's temp and I still need an O2 sensor + plus possibly a cat if removing the now cemented sensor from the cat breaks it.
Do you know what a proper tie rod, upper ball joints and wheel bearing repair entails? Someone told me that when replacing steering parts, a wheel alignment is needed and I should ensure that the mechanic working on my car has the equipment. Frankly I don't know if a wheel alignment is needed, do you?
Tie rod, nothing too special. Ball joint, you'll need a ball joint separator tool. Wheel bearing ... some need to be pulled out, some don't. In any case, a ball joint and tie rod replacement WILL need an alignment, as replacing them means taking apart the steering/suspension components, not to mention they will be nice and tight instead of worn and loose.
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Also for steering parts, it seemed like just replacing the parts seemed straight forward enough, how could he really mess something like that up?
If something is improperly torqued, if parts are sub-standard, if he does a crappy job of lining it back up and in driving it to the shop, you severely damage the tires ...
Again, considering the patch job he did on the exhaust instead of obtaining the proper gaskets to do it right, what makes you think that the same won't be happen if he's working on your steering components? As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
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