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IIUC there is NO haplotype that is an exclusive Jewish marker. There are some that seem to occur disproportionately among Jews. But are also found elsewhere. Ergo the jewish origin of a particular individual cannot be proven from their haplotypes. Even when you have their actual genes, which in this case we do not.
according to traditional jewish law, anyone whose mother was Jewish is a Jew whether they practice Judaism or not (if they don't practice,then they are a sinning Jew) A convert to Judaism is a Jew, however, whomever their parents were.
according to traditional jewish law, anyone whose mother was Jewish is a Jew whether they practice Judaism or not (if they don't practice,then they are a sinning Jew) A convert to Judaism is a Jew, however, whomever their parents were.
I agree with the above but would like to elaborate that a convert is a considered a Jew to those Jews who consider him or her to be a Jew.
That is to say, If I become a convert at Congregation 'X' (a Reform temple), those members of the congregation and other theologically/socially aligned congregations (other reform temples) may consider the convert to be a Jew, but other congregations are likely to believe otherwise.
Nope, it's based on your heritage... I haven't "practiced" Judaism in YEARS, and still consider myself Jewish. I think Hitler and the Nazis (skinheads, KKK, etc) would also agree, regardless of how long it's been since I attended synagogue. I figure if they always consider me a Jew regardless of religious practices, I might as well own it and be proud.
IIUC there is NO haplotype that is an exclusive Jewish marker. There are some that seem to occur disproportionately among Jews. But are also found elsewhere. Ergo the jewish origin of a particular individual cannot be proven from their haplotypes. Even when you have their actual genes, which in this case we do not.
As I said earlier, I know absolutely nothing about genetics - so I can't honestly say I know what you're talking about. All I know is that we have something in common genetically, or they wouldn't be able to tell my relative was an Ashkenazi Levite Jew. And even if the genetics don't prove anything, I think thousands of years of tradition do... it's always been "if your mother is a Jew you are a Jew," which was (partly) how they determined who to murder in the holocaust. I don't think everyone labeled Jewish was actually a practicing Jew, but having the bloodline was enough. You can argue semantics until the cows come home, but it won't change history and current Judaic laws.
Since being "Jewish" is a religious issue and not a racial or genetic issue, I find it FUNNY that someone can claim there is such a thing as "Jewish genes."
I find it even FUNNIER that some people fall for that kind of false science.
BTW, for clarification, there is no genetic difference, unless something has been found in the past five or so years, between Arabs and Sephardic Jews. Both groups are considered to be Semitic peoples by anthropologists, and are genetically indistinguishable. So in the case of Sephardic Jews, one could argue that only a religious construct exists between Jews and Arabs.
In light of the discussion as to what makes a person Jewish, it might be of interest to some to know how the Nazi's went about answering that question.
The passage on September 15, 1935 of the "Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor" and the "Reich Citizenship Law", or what are commonly referred to as the "Nuremberg Laws", codified the persecution of German Jews. When it came to enforcement, the Nazi's realized they had a problem; namely there being no definition of what made someone a Jew and thus subject to the laws. In an attempt to rectify this, they passed another piece of legislation on November 14, 1935 which set out the criteria to be used to determine if a person was a Jew. They were as follows:
1) Anyone who was descended from three or four Jewish grandparents.
2) Anyone who had two Jewish grandparents and belonged to a synagogue on September 15, 1935 or joined after that date.
3) Anyone married to a Jew or Jewess on September 15, 1935 or married to one thereafter.
4) Anyone who was born as a result of a marriage or affair with a Jew on or after September 15, 1935.
To further complicate the issue, the Nazi's added two additional categories to deal with individuals who were not technically considered Jews but did have within them some Jewish blood. These people were designated as "Mischlinge" or "half breeds". There were two types of Mischlinge:
1) Mischlinge - First Degree: Someone with two Jewish grandparents but not a member of the Jewish religion or married to a Jew.
2) Mischlinge - Second Degree: Anyone with one Jewish grandparent.
Under Nazi law, Mischlinge of either degree were prohibited from membership in the Nazi Party and it's affiliated organizations, such as the SS. They could be drafted into the Wehrmacht but were not permitted to attain officer rank. Some estimates put the number of Mischlinge that served in the Wehrmach as being upwards of 150,000. Mischlinge also were forbidden to be members of the civil service or certain professions, but they could apply for an exemption to this. The grounds for obtaining a waiver were based on any of the following: the critical nature of the post they held, service in a front line unit during the First World War, being wounded in combat in the First World War, losing a son or father in the First World War.
Given the rather convoluted nature of the definitions, persecution eventually ended up being largely aimed at those who fell into categories one and two and Mischlinge - First Degree. Mischlinge - Second Degree seemed to have been pretty much left alone. Though once the Final Solution began, it's doubtful that the Nazi's were quite so selective in who they sent off to the camps.
Since being "Jewish" is a religious issue and not a racial or genetic issue, I find it FUNNY that someone can claim there is such a thing as "Jewish genes."
I find it even FUNNIER that some people fall for that kind of false science.
Absolutely right, although it's also true that there doesn't seem to be a limit as to what people will fall for.
(The operative phrase here is...oy vey!)
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All I know is that we have something in common genetically, or they wouldn't be able to tell my relative was an Ashkenazi Levite Jew. And even if the genetics don't prove anything, I think thousands of years of tradition do... it's always been "if your mother is a Jew you are a Jew," which was (partly) how they determined who to murder in the holocaust. I don't think everyone labeled Jewish was actually a practicing Jew, but having the bloodline was enough. You can argue semantics until the cows come home, but it won't change history and current Judaic laws.
