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It's nice to see a RWer so concerned about the country's poor.
Not only am I concerned about it but I have subsidized and helped many people through tough times. I have about 15K in unpaid bills accumulated over the years because I was quite generous with credit for people that couldn't pay their bills. I wasn't any under obligation like a utility would be to give the product to them. Guess I never learned, fortunately most of them paid it eventually.
Sure they do. But that just adds cost to the energy.
Plus, 1000MW of wind turbines takes a lot of acreage...yet another cost.
Additionally, it won't generate 1000MW at peak times, have to have additionall generates for that. ooops! more cost!
Wind has its niche, but generally wind is a very good solution only for people who are very bad at math.
Actually, I'm very good at math. 1000 MW of wind turbine take very little acerage, < 1/4 acre around each turbine base. That's why the farmers love them. They can farm the field and watch their royalty check grow as the turbines turn.
No generation technology is on 100% of the time. That's why you use a portfolio of plants.
You'd be suprised at how many environmentalists do not understand this.
And yeah, a quarter acre around the base, but how many windmills to generate 1000MW?
500-700, spaced ten rotor diameters apart. Comparable or smaller footprint than a 1000 MW coal-fired plant with coal pile, slurry pond, cooling reservoir etc.
I agree with some of what you say, but I cannot agree with this. I am currently working with a Wind Turbine company to develop my farm that is located on a hill, and saying what I quoted you as saying is a bit to generic. How many turbines that can be placed on a given spot is so varied that a true answer cannot be given. I know as I point blank asked the rep how many windmills this farm could have. Only a year of wind studies can decide that. There is no set distance from one another.
I also disagree with your assessment that green technology will provide jobs. It won't. Here we are in wind turbine hysteria, but aside from a few workers installing these turbines over a very short period of time, there are no jobs to speak of. The maintenance on these turbines are nill. Heck even the oil is designed to be changed every 2 YEARS!
Here they were planning to build a coal fired powerplant and figured it would employ 400 workers. Instantly it was squashed by the local residents. Undeterred, the proposal shifted and they decided to upgrade an existing papermill so that they could burn coal instead of #6 buncker C oil. They hired a few more people because of the added capacity but nowhere near the 400 people a coal fired plant would provide...and as for us residents, yep we get the pollution without the benefit of jobs.
I do agree with you though that wind turbines will not take up much of a footprint. I am a farmer and would not agree to them if they took up much needed farmland. The area where I want to install them is deemed "Vital to State of Maine Agriculture". There is no way I would develop such strategic argriculural land. I would even go so far as to say that ¼ acre is being pretty generous. These turbines just don't take up much land at all.
I agree with some of what you say, but I cannot agree with this. I am currently working with a Wind Turbine company to develop my farm that is located on a hill, and saying what I quoted you as saying is a bit to generic. How many turbines that can be placed on a given spot is so varied that a true answer cannot be given. I know as I point blank asked the rep how many windmills this farm could have. Only a year of wind studies can decide that. There is no set distance from one another.
It was a generic answer for a generic question, but 10 rotor diameters is not a bad planning number. When you have a year or two of anemometer readings you can microsite the turbine. In addition if you are on a ridgeline, you probably space the turbines closer together because the field is more linear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTap
I also disagree with your assessment that green technology will provide jobs. It won't. Here we are in wind turbine hysteria, but aside from a few workers installing these turbines over a very short period of time, there are no jobs to speak of. The maintenance on these turbines are nill. Heck even the oil is designed to be changed every 2 YEARS!
1000 MW of wind would provide about 40-50 direct O&M jobs, ~80 indirect jobs, and ~50 induced jobs. Construction of that 1000 MW would generate about 5,000 jobs during the construction process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTap
Here they were planning to build a coal fired powerplant and figured it would employ 400 workers. Instantly it was squashed by the local residents. Undeterred, the proposal shifted and they decided to upgrade an existing papermill so that they could burn coal instead of #6 buncker C oil. They hired a few more people because of the added capacity but nowhere near the 400 people a coal fired plant would provide...and as for us residents, yep we get the pollution without the benefit of jobs.
400 people would have been a very big coal-fired plant
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenTap
I do agree with you though that wind turbines will not take up much of a footprint. I am a farmer and would not agree to them if they took up much needed farmland. The area where I want to install them is deemed "Vital to State of Maine Agriculture". There is no way I would develop such strategic argriculural land. I would even go so far as to say that ¼ acre is being pretty generous. These turbines just don't take up much land at all.
Depends upon the foundation. Again a generic answer for a generic question.
500-700, spaced ten rotor diameters apart. Comparable or smaller footprint than a 1000 MW coal-fired plant with coal pile, slurry pond, cooling reservoir etc.
and again WRONG!!!!!
Xcel Energy - Grand Meadow Wind Farm (http://www.xcelenergy.com/Company/About_Energy_and_Rates/Power%20Generation/Pages/Grand_Meadow_Wind_Farm.aspx - broken link)
Location: Dexter, Minnesota
The wind farm spans a stretch of farm fields six miles long and four miles wide, and is spread out over roughly 10,000 acres southeast of Interstate 90 three miles north and three miles south of Hwy 16, in Grand Meadow, Clayton, and Dexter Townships in Mower County. Plant Description: Grand Meadow is a 67-unit wind farm consisting of GE 1.5 SLE turbines. Power Production Capability:1.5 MW each for a total of 100.5 MW.
A 306-megawatt wind farm proposed for 77 acres in Brookings and Deuel counties would nearly triple the state's total production of wind energy - adding enough capacity to power 148,000 Midwestern homes. (Editor's note: The figure "77 acres" does not appear to be an accurate figure. Turbine facilities of this scale require hundreds to thousands of acres of open land.)
compared to 6700 acres for a 2400MW dirt burner and a 1000 MW nuc plant: http://miva.sctimes.com/miva/cgi-bin...03110312083792
4,500 acres for its Sherco coal-burning plant in Becker and 2,200 acres for the Monticello nuclear plant, said Dave Heberling, manager of environmental and plant services at the Sherco plant. The property includes about seven miles of river frontage.
Xcel Energy - Sherburne County (Sherco) Plant (http://www.xcelenergy.com/Company/About_Energy_and_Rates/Power%20Generation/MinnesotaPlants/Pages/SherburneCountyPlant.aspx - broken link)
The plant’s typical availability factor of 95 percent is well above the national average of 78 percent for coal plant availability...Now where did I hear that? oh right I said it.....
Another interesting beneifit not provided by a wind farm....
Becker, Minnesota Real Estate, Becker Relocation - RelocateAmerica (http://www.relocateamerica.com/minnesota/cities/becker - broken link)
In addition to being a "A1" residential area, Becker has a nice base of light and heavy industrial facilities. Everyone in the community benefits from the coal-fired electric generating facility dubbed "Sherco" (short for Sherburne County). The city enjoys the "lowest taxation rate in the state of Minnesota".
When many people where shouting "Not in our back yards", Becker provided a location for the generating facility. Now that the facility is built, many communities in the state are screaming for a "revenue sharing" plan to address the "unfair" advantages that the Becker community now enjoys. The city gets about $2.5 million of general fund revenue annually. More than 90% of this comes from the "Sherco" generating facility.
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