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New tech? Great. I'll change my opinion when it's put into service and the data changes. Until then, alternate sources are only 25% efficient and cost 4x more than we're told.... We might also suspend the discussion until they finally develop cold fusion, but don't hold your breath.
PERC has been being installed for at least 3 to 4 years, now. It is how we know the performance.
Really, you are heading into being Decades out of date.
Quote:
Back to the OP-- a timely paper summarized here https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/06/...opean-leaders/ EVs produce 2x the co2 the EU planned on in their regs to eliminate ICEs by 2030. That makes them worse than Diesels.
They have a Major Error:
====================================
Whilst transfer of electrical energy is possible over short and medium distances, transport from of
electricity from wind-rich or sun-rich areas cannot be realised in many cases, e.g. from South America,
Australia, Africa or the Arabian Peninsula. Therefore, importing chemical energy carriers instead of
electricity makes more sense.
====================================
The High Voltage DC lines are already under design.
Electric Motors are SO much better than what is called the "Wells-to-Wheels" path of Oil, that EV total use is lower by entire multiples, and by the time we get to Electric Roadways, it will be by a factor of 10X -- or 1/10th the overall Energy.
Most Oil-to-ICE use is lost as Heat. Between the Heat Losses and the Transport and Refinery Energy required, by the time Oil hits the Tires, only about 10% makes it through to do work. By contrast, with Electric Motors -- at least 80% and up to 90% get through the path.
Meanwhile, the Energy to run Electric Vehicles is getting cheaper all the time due to Silicon Solar PV. Numbers of 1 cent per kWh are now being bid ahead for the next three years. This has the potential to wipe out everything else.
I did the calculations here a yr or 2 ago-- if elecricity comes from a coal fired plant, given all the inefficiencies at each point of transfer (2nd LoT)- plant heat loss, transmission losses , charging station losses , battery losses and motor lotor losses before the ringinal chemical eneghy in the coal is turned to kinetic energy of the vehicle, the heat losses along the way favor the ICE slightly....If we use CCng production it's a wash.
While the best ICEs are only 35% effieicnt at turning chemical energy into kinetic, the multiple steps in getting the electricity to the drive wheel add up to the same level of (in)efficiency fromthe EV.
Show us your work if you want us to believe otherwise.
In regards the new alt tech being applied for several yrs now, please site references to their efficiency in practice.
Well of course that is not true. Trying to use rotating mechanical mass as a source or loads on an electrical system is where latency, lag, and power factors come from.
With electronics acting 1000x faster, and inverters creating (or even correcting) the system at unity (100% voltage aligned with amps), a grid can stay perfectly aligned and even load-add or load-shed to balance the overall system.
where in the world is an operating inverter system that can maintain unity the way a 1 gig fossil plant can???? You can't.....That's why we're building natural gas recip plants as fast as we can
where in the world is an operating inverter system that can maintain unity the way a 1 gig fossil plant can???? You can't.....That's why we're building natural gas recip plants as fast as we can
Maybe you have a similar thing to guido going on?
New things and new thoughts cannot exist, because you can not align them with old thoughts and old things?
I follow you are or were . . . an expert on such things . . . some decades ago. But consider we are now into a whole new Century -- it is 2021, now -- and times and technology have advanced. It is not 1973 or whatever, anymore. That was 50 years ago.
In THIS Century and THIS Decade, in particular -- remember, it is 2021 -- we are no longer building Coal, have only one New Nuke boondoggle going on (which cannot even be brought on line), and most Coal and Nukes are shutting down. Even Natural Gas is stalling out. All the BIG - MECHANICAL - TONS of Spinning Steel and Conductors . . . is fading to the past. I know from prior conversations around here that nothing changes in olde folkes mindes -- but out in the REAL World -- Times and Technology is moving on.
I track this stuff out ahead because I do the permit reviewing out some years ahead. So I already have the look-ahead. But hit this link, and you can see the numbers of NOW -- this Decade, this Century -- with pretty graphs, pictures and all that. The Look-Ahead is to mostly Renewable, and especially Silicon Solar PV -- because it has won on: Cheapest, Fastest, Cleanest, and Lowest Risk. Everything we want in an Energy Source. Really, go ahead and look. These numbers are correct >>>
As far as your technical question -- regarding Unity and Voltage/Current control into the 1E9 watt range. Yes, that has been the case for some decades now as well. You already know this, if you think about it? At the terminal or receiving end of EVERY HVDC line there is a LARGE (actually parallel set of Large) Inverters doing just that.
I did the calculations here a yr or 2 ago-- if elecricity comes from a coal fired plant, given all the inefficiencies at each point of transfer (2nd LoT)- plant heat loss, transmission losses , charging station losses , battery losses and motor lotor losses before the ringinal chemical eneghy in the coal is turned to kinetic energy of the vehicle, the heat losses along the way favor the ICE slightly....If we use CCng production it's a wash.
While the best ICEs are only 35% effieicnt at turning chemical energy into kinetic, the multiple steps in getting the electricity to the drive wheel add up to the same level of (in)efficiency fromthe EV.
Show us your work if you want us to believe otherwise.
In regards the new alt tech being applied for several yrs now, please site references to their efficiency in practice.
ALL of this is in the Here and Now. Your self-reinforced confusion is just from your preferred "confirmation bias" hack sites you prefer which have "information" from the prior decades or century.
Less and less Electricity is coming from Coal (it has already dropped to become a minor player), and more and more is Silicon Solar PV -- that is most of what we are building for the Decade ahead.
There is NO additional energy required after Silicon Solar PV is created and installed. One time build, good for decades. That goes out on Transmission and Distribution Lines with a 5% or less loss, or if created locally -- ZERO loss -- and powers the Electric Load.
You cannot even PUMP and Transport Oil without much more loss. Add on Refinery, Distribution, Retail and then ICE losses -- and things already died and lost the race long ago.
If you like -- you are welcome to argue about Coal Plants from the last Century v. Oil Methods (which are still in the Last Century) == but that is sort of like discussing whether a Triceratops can beat a T-Rex. Does not matter. They are both Dinosaurs and are dead or dying. I am not really part of that nonsense.
Einstein once said that no preponderance of successful experiments can ever prove I'm right, but just one with adverse results can prove me wrong.
Zero loss? They've invented wires with no resistance? Anyone who passed hi school physics knows that's wrong....Now we can't believe anything you say. Good thing you work for the govt.
I repeat the logical deduction in the OP-- If it's so cheap, why isn't eveyone trying to convert to alternatives? Without the subsidies and tax advantages, the power companies wouldn't be doing it at all.
Article pointing out the trends in power production over the last several years. Alternative power has only increased from 3% of power prduction to 6% -- mostly because of govt subsidies & tax breaks.
Be sure to read the comments, many written by engineers & scientists who live and work in the real world.
According to one poster, it takes 160 tons of coal to produce the steel for one industrial sized wind turbine.
How many wind turbines would it take to reproduce the energy in 160 tons of coal?...and wouldn;t those turbines need back up with even more turbines?... How much power generation by alternatives would it take for EVs to mine, transport and process the material to manufacture solar cells? ...and how many extra solar cells would we need to provide the back up?
Doesn't this sound more and more like a Perpetual Motion Machine fraud?
Article pointing out the trends in power production over the last several years. Alternative power has only increased from 3% of power prduction to 6% -- mostly because of govt subsidies & tax breaks.
Be sure to read the comments, many written by engineers & scientists who live and work in the real world.
According to one poster, it takes 160 tons of coal to produce the steel for one industrial sized wind turbine.
How many wind turbines would it take to reproduce the energy in 160 tons of coal?...and wouldn;t those turbines need back up with even more turbines?... How much power generation by alternatives would it take for EVs to mine, transport and process the material to manufacture solar cells? ...and how many extra solar cells would we need to provide the back up?
Doesn't this sound more and more like a Perpetual Motion Machine fraud?
More of your hack stuff, by dummies for dummies? Guess you have to work with what you have?
It would seem you (and the author) have completely mixed overall "Energy" which includes burning Oil to move ICEs with a sub-topic of "Electricity." The LLNL Sankey Chart better explains things. If you are not familiar with it, but wish to understand this topic, it is a good place to start. It is an easy click -- and you really should understand this >>>
Start with looking at the bottom of the flow chart. See the Big Band across the bottom -- Oil? That is our real addiction. That mostly goes away with Electric Transportation, because Transportation is where most Oil goes. Keep moving to the right across the Transportation block. See where that goes? Mostly to "Rejected Energy." That is what the lossy "Well to Wheels" path looks like in this format. That also goes away with Electric Transportation. That means we drop about 1/3 of our Energy Use, as we get rid of ICEs. The ICEs are the major root cause of all our Energy, Oil, and Pollution problems from the 1970s. As Transportation moves from Oil to Electricity across the next decade, Oil use can massively drop. Most Oil presently is just burnt into the air.
Let me know you made that far on the Sankey Chart, and we can then do the Top Band -- Electricity.
==============================
As far as process steel -- of which Silicon Solar PV requires none -- and Silicon Solar PV is the by far the path ahead for New Generation -- this below is how Steel and Iron Ore have been done with regard to Coal, and where it is heading.
Coal has been used to reduce the Oxygen present. That is to take the Oxygen away from Iron-Oxide, aka Iron Ore. Recycled Steel does not need much Oxygen Reduction -- Only raw Iron Ore uses large scale Oxygen Reduction. This has traditionally been done with Coal (the burning Coal absorbs the Oxygen from the melting Iron-Oxide -- leaving only Iron).
At this point most steel now comes from Recycling -- not new Iron Ore. So less and less Oxygen Reduction is required. Sweden has started using Hydrogen in the process rather than Coal. As the Hydrogen burns, it absorbs the Oxygen and creates water. Old Oil burning cars and Coal plants are now being recycled into fresh Steel for all sorts of uses -- including Wind Turbines.
Also, producing electricity is only part of the equation. We need to look at what is used to produce ENERGY (not just electricity). And there's not just production of energy - there's also transporting and heating. 84.3 percent of the world's energy is dependent on fossil fuels - oil, natural gas, and coal. https://ourworldindata.org/electricity-mix
we have heard more cases of EV catching fire?
and the batter reigniting?
what happens if there is a multi car accident on highway and the firemen cant put out the fire?
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