Issues regarding crime and race. Productive and proactive dialogue needed (attorneys, health care)
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I am seeing many threads and the dialogue I see isn't very productive. There are issues regarding crime. There are also some racial issues in this nation. Before any stats are brought up, I do not want this thread to be a "bash this race" thread. I am going to check the statistics. This stuff about IQ and race, well, IQ tests are biased anyway, so that really shouldn't be used. I want this thread to be of productive and proactive dialogue. It should be about finding solutions to very difficult problems. My view is this: Correlation is not causation. Race and crime are only correlations. We need to ask the "why" these things happen and what can be done to make things better, to solve problems, to create a more fuctional community for everyone.
While I think a post like this is a good idea in theory, I also think that many will not be able to refrain themselves from using stereotypes and misconceptions to try and give their reasonings. Even when people use statistics, they in themselves can be biased. When taking statistical math in College one learns that stats can be easily manipulated to reflect the takers bias.
I also see too many people that want to stand on the outside looking in and pointing fingers. While an outsiders prespective can bring fresh and new ideas, it never helps ignoring the insiders point of view, which seems to happen most of the time.
With all that being said, I hope maybe this thread is one that can stay on proper course.
You want to eliminate racism and crime? It is soooo easy.
"No Excuses" Law enforcement. In other words, no one should be allowed to either buy their way out of a crime, or excuse their way out of a crime. Everyone takes personal responsibility for their own actions, can't blame their mommy and daddy or lack thereof, can't blame society or their peers, can't blame their emotional state or their food intake, can't blame the fact that they were raised to expect too much or have too little. Anytime someone commits a crime against another individual - either a property or a personal injury crime - they are held completely and solely responsible.
Unfortunately, this will never happen, because too many people have an 'entitlement' mindset (those who buy their justice as well as those who manipulate it) and too many attorneys have too comfortable a living based on finding excuses for their clients. Too many parents think that children are for decoration or income production, and have the "Doritos complex" about them - "go ahead and crunch them - we can make more"; they refuse to teach them responsibility or anything else, and expect society to rear them and put up with them. That attitude spans all races and all income levels; parents feel no responsibility to their children and allow them to do as they please to themselves and others, and scream like scalded cats "MY child would NEVER!!!" so that they don't have to take the responsibility of them. Then when those children graduate to heinous crimes, the parents still don't take them in hand; they are off on their business trips or in their crack houses, enjoying their lives and unconcerned about what sort of monsters they've raised - as long as it costs them nothing in time, emotion, or cash. Where there are no standards, where there are no repercussions, where there are people who can use any and every excuse to justify their choices instead of accepting the responsibility for them, you have racism, classism, and an overworked justice system cutting deals at all phases of the spectrum. False pity, self-justification, and emotion have no place in a justice system - for anyone.
I took an anthropology class. It is found that IQ tests are biased.
I went to second grade. It is found that George Washington chopped down a cherry tree.
Obviously, some IQ tests are, were, or can be biased. Since that fact emerged, a great deal of effort has been dedicated to removing the bias, and in spite of that, there are huge (like 20-point) differences between the observed IQs of different ethnic groups even where the testees grew up in the same community.
If the tests were sociologically biased, boys and girls would have different test scores, but they don't.
You have predetermined that you are going to disallow any data or evidence that you can call "biased" on the basis of your own bias about that data, based on what some prof told you in anthropology class.
If you are going to disasllow any "biased" data from corrupting your research, you need to also disallow all crime statistics, because law enforcement, prosecution, sentencing, attorney access, jury selection, plea-bargaining, and even the letter of the law are all highly biased along racial lines. So where does that leave you?
I went to second grade. It is found that George Washington chopped down a cherry tree.
Obviously, some IQ tests are, were, or can be biased. Since that fact emerged, a great deal of effort has been dedicated to removing the bias, and in spite of that, there are huge (like 20-point) differences between the observed IQs of different ethnic groups even where the testees grew up in the same community.
If the tests were sociologically biased, boys and girls would have different test scores, but they don't.
You have predetermined that you are going to disallow any data or evidence that you can call "biased" on the basis of your own bias about that data, based on what some prof told you in anthropology class.
If you are going to disasllow any "biased" data from corrupting your research, you need to also disallow all crime statistics, because law enforcement, prosecution, sentencing, attorney access, jury selection, plea-bargaining, and even the letter of the law are all highly biased along racial lines. So where does that leave you?
Not always is data and statistics needed to work through problems. Many of times real and heart felt discussions work far better.
Not always is data and statistics needed to work through problems. Many of times real and heart felt discussions work far better.
Yes, notice how well those tried and true techniques are making real progress in finding a health care solution, and settling the abortion issue once and for all. Heart-felt discussions, where level heads prevail.
I went to second grade. It is found that George Washington chopped down a cherry tree.
Obviously, some IQ tests are, were, or can be biased. Since that fact emerged, a great deal of effort has been dedicated to removing the bias, and in spite of that, there are huge (like 20-point) differences between the observed IQs of different ethnic groups even where the testees grew up in the same community.
If the tests were sociologically biased, boys and girls would have different test scores, but they don't.
You have predetermined that you are going to disallow any data or evidence that you can call "biased" on the basis of your own bias about that data, based on what some prof told you in anthropology class.
If you are going to disasllow any "biased" data from corrupting your research, you need to also disallow all crime statistics, because law enforcement, prosecution, sentencing, attorney access, jury selection, plea-bargaining, and even the letter of the law are all highly biased along racial lines. So where does that leave you?
BTW, how is bringing up IQ scores suppose to be proactive and productive for anyone? If you are going to bring up IQ scores, then you have to bring up other factors involved with what might cause a person to score "below the norm". IQ tests were never really fair to begin with. It certainly isn't providing a proactive solution for crime either.
I am seeing many threads and the dialogue I see isn't very productive. There are issues regarding crime. There are also some racial issues in this nation. Before any stats are brought up, I do not want this thread to be a "bash this race" thread. I am going to check the statistics. This stuff about IQ and race, well, IQ tests are biased anyway, so that really shouldn't be used. I want this thread to be of productive and proactive dialogue. It should be about finding solutions to very difficult problems. My view is this: Correlation is not causation. Race and crime are only correlations. We need to ask the "why" these things happen and what can be done to make things better, to solve problems, to create a more fuctional community for everyone.
I don't think your view is as outlined as much as it could be. I have done stats, perhaps, we shouldn't start at the bottom but at the top. Consider talking to the reader as if they are already there instead of some place we need to go.
My bad, looking for a thread that was different.
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