Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I once heard a sports doctor say that every US high school football player experiences the equivalent of a car crash every Friday night. Every adult I've ever know who needed knee surgery said it was a direct result of high school sports.
So? I have tons of aches and pains mostly because of my sports career (varsity athlete in football, basketball, baseball and ice hockey, college athlete in baseball and ice hockey) but some of my life's greatest moments came on the football field or on the ice. Anyone who played HS football can understand the value of it, it's those who were not lucky enough to play that don't get it.
I wish I would have seen the show; it will be repeated, I'll try to catch it then. My first question for LeftyDan, is how much of the rationale behind potentially banning high school sports is based upon fear of litigation? People everywhere are running scared, and you can't really blame them.
I had a long conversation with a lifelong friend on Easter Sunday; a lawyer, but he doesn't like it much. We got on this subject when I told him that he and his colleagues were ruining America, making it impossible to live, for sanity to prevail, for me to find the directions on my cough syrup when I have to peel back three pages of either mandatory or "precautionary" disclaimers before I can find the recommended dosage instructions, something you'd think should be on the first page. I was joking of course, kind of, but he didn't disagree. We then got onto the subject of a mutual friend, a guy who came from nothing and built a ten million dollar a year business with his bare hands. But who is in danger of losing it all after getting hit with the second class action law suit in as many years, a bogus one at that, but one that promises to be a bonanza for all plaintiffs concerned, notably the high powered team of litigators for the plaintiffs.
Everyone knows there is a criminal law problem in this country. Unless you can afford a great lawyer chances are you are going to jail. But there is a major civil law problem in this country; nine out of ten suits filed are based on the same kind of whim as betting on the spin of a roulette wheel. Many are out and out fraudulent, only filed due to a potential big pay off with no risk. The answer, (not my original idea), is that before a suit can be filed, the plaintiff and/or his attorney must put up a bond, maybe a deposit of ten per cent of what they seek in the suit. If they win, the deposit will be returned. If they lose, the money goes to the state. Frivolous, fraudulent law suits would disappear almost overnight.
I guess there's a chance that this has nothing to do with the show that you saw last night LeftyDan, and in that case I sure do apologize, but I just can't imagine them caring that much about kids if it's not about $$$.
By the way, I played football and ran track in high school, and played football for my small college as well, also was an amateur kickboxer so you know how I feel about it.
I want to see the little cheerleaders and assemblies for the Brain Bowl or the Robotics club. I think PE is a sham. I thought it was a sham before and it is still a sham.
I am not against the glorification of intellect, but this is also a part of the wussification of America. Some schools aren't giving grades anymore because of the same reasons. Let the intellectuals shine as well. When I went to Public HS, I always got the top score in the class on every test, no matter what subject it was. I was not embarrassed that my Algebra teacher called me "The Great" because I was able to finish the test with a perfect score before he was even done explaining it to the class, it taught me how to be humble about my talents. I didn't get cocky and arrogant about it, I instead became the go-to guy for my classmates when they had a question.
It's not the schools that need to be blamed in most cases, but the parents of the bad kids. Good parenting will make up for bad schooling, but it's very difficult for it to go the other way around. You have 5+ hours a day to work with your child on their behavior and their study skills, if your child is still "bad" it's definitely your fault as a parent.
As a coach, I can always guess the home situation of my kids simply based on a practice or two and the attitude they show. The most attentive parents have the most attentive children, no matter what their background is.
I wish I would have seen the show; it will be repeated, I'll try to catch it then. My first question for LeftyDan, is how much of the rationale behind potentially banning high school sports is based upon fear of litigation? People everywhere are running scared, and you can't really blame them.
I had a long conversation with a lifelong friend on Easter Sunday; a lawyer, but he doesn't like it much. We got on this subject when I told him that he and his colleagues were ruining America, making it impossible to live, for sanity to prevail, for me to find the directions on my cough syrup when I have to peel back three pages of either mandatory or "precautionary" disclaimers before I can find the recommended dosage instructions, something you'd think should be on the first page. I was joking of course, kind of, but he didn't disagree. We then got onto the subject of a mutual friend, a guy who came from nothing and built a ten million dollar a year business with his bare hands. But who is in danger of losing it all after getting hit with the second class action law suit in as many years, a bogus one at that, but one that promises to be a bonanza for all plaintiffs concerned, notably the high powered team of litigators for the plaintiffs.
Everyone knows there is a criminal law problem in this country. Unless you can afford a great lawyer chances are you are going to jail. But there is a major civil law problem in this country; nine out of ten suits filed are based on the same kind of whim as betting on the spin of a roulette wheel. Many are out and out fraudulent, only filed due to a potential big pay off with no risk. The answer, (not my original idea), is that before a suit can be filed, the plaintiff and/or his attorney must put up a bond, maybe a deposit of ten per cent of what they seek in the suit. If they win, the deposit will be returned. If they lose, the money goes to the state. Frivolous, fraudulent law suits would disappear almost overnight.
I guess there's a chance that this has nothing to do with the show that you saw last night LeftyDan, and in that case I sure do apologize, but I just can't imagine them caring that much about kids if it's not about $$$.
By the way, I played football and ran track in high school, and played football for my small college as well, also was an amateur kickboxer so you know how I feel about it.
It will definitely be repeated on HBO (plus it's On-Demand) for the next couple weeks. There's also an interesting story on Charlie Manuel, a woman who is a boxing trainer for a man contending for a title, and a rash of violence against inner-city athletes in Virginia.
Good point about litigation...it's made a huge difference in the world of dealing with kids. My sister is a lawyer (non-practicing), so my opinion of Lawyers is much higher than most.
As a coach, I am afraid to have any physical contact with my kids, and I am also afraid to give the kids a ride home simply because I worry that I may be sued. I have to go through a lot of hoops simply to volunteer with an inner-city team that has no volunteers. If I wasn't so motivated to make a difference in my community, those hoops might keep me from doing so.
But it (the ramifications of overzealous litigators) extends beyond the kids. My assistant coach for my little league team was a walk-on on the baseball team at USC, he obviously has baseball skills and he's 32 years old. However, because someone MIGHT get hurt, he has to wear a catcher's mask if he wants to catch the balls thrown in while I hit infield for the kids. A grown man has to wear a catcher's helmet just to catch balls thrown by 13 year olds!
I'm a strong believer that grown adults should be responsible for themselves. If we are hurt because we chose to take part in a activity that can be dangerous, we have no right to sue. If all the deaths in the history of baseball (during practices and games) were added up, it wouldn't come close to the number of people killed each month in car accidents. I won't sue BMW if someone I love is killed by a BMW driver going too fast...so why would I sue Little League for a kid hitting a line drive at my head?
You know those kids who refused to compete in all those PE games? Those are those losers who live with their parents when they are 30, because they're too afraid to compete in the job market, too afraid to compete in school, and too afraid to try anything difficult to improve themselves.
BTW, I'm a person who went to highly-regarded private schools and who excelled as a student. I make a living with my brain and not my braun...
From reading your posts I'm not at all surprised you make your living with your brain and not your brawn; most us of do. You know the old cliche, some of my best friends are ______. Well alotta my friends are lawyers. I am not though I worked for a criminal law firm as an investigator for years. But there's just no lying about the fact the lawyers are ruining this country. I had a good friend years ago, whose father was a doctor. In those days, he paid over 100K per year in malpractice insurance. I can only imagine what he pays now. I'm sure most of us have experienced first hand how fear of litigation has changed our society. You can see it in everyday life. It has a direct effect on our standard of living and it shows no signs of changing, as long as the ABA holds so much sway in the House.
I am not against the glorification of intellect, but this is also a part of the wussification of America. Some schools aren't giving grades anymore because of the same reasons. Let the intellectuals shine as well. When I went to Public HS, I always got the top score in the class on every test, no matter what subject it was. I was not embarrassed that my Algebra teacher called me "The Great" because I was able to finish the test with a perfect score before he was even done explaining it to the class, it taught me how to be humble about my talents. I didn't get cocky and arrogant about it, I instead became the go-to guy for my classmates when they had a question.
It's not the schools that need to be blamed in most cases, but the parents of the bad kids. Good parenting will make up for bad schooling, but it's very difficult for it to go the other way around. You have 5+ hours a day to work with your child on their behavior and their study skills, if your child is still "bad" it's definitely your fault as a parent.
As a coach, I can always guess the home situation of my kids simply based on a practice or two and the attitude they show. The most attentive parents have the most attentive children, no matter what their background is.
I'm pretty sure , that a large portion of problems can be directly related to the changes that have been made in the education system. Working with juvenile delinquents its pretty easy to see what is going on in schools with the referrals. Beyond personal experience, there is information that says no, this is not an environment that is conducive to learning for many males. They learn differently then females do. When statistic wise the gender gap widens by the time of graduation and into college, its more than parenting.
Are there schools that pass kids right through? Yes, and no matter how often a teacher tries to fail them they are not allowed. This is wrong on so many levels.
The thing is that competition is good AND it is ok that a child "fails" at a sport. They do not need a little sticker or a little trophy. However, we need to value the competition in other areas. I mean truly value.
My dad was a semi-pro boxer and baseball player. He taught me to play ball at a very early age, and talked about how important it was to learn to box, but I was never interested in that, and never became a very good ball player either. I made the HS baseball team, but never got into a game and was appointed the team statistician, a function I was more suited for. I was below average at touch football and stubbornly refused to play a game like basketball, and never learned to skate or swim. I ws fairly decent at tennis in my 30s. I played a round of golf once, nobody believed that it was my first time, and I quit while I was ahead.
I feel that my life has not been diminished in the slightest by the absence of these experiences. But I still have a passionate love for baseball. Baseball transcends mere sport---it is the essence of the universe.
My dad was a semi-pro boxer and baseball player. He taught me to play ball at a very early age, and talked about how important it was to learn to box, but I was never interested in that, and never became a very good ball player either. I made the HS baseball team, but never got into a game and was appointed the team statistician, a function I was more suited for. I was below average at touch football and stubbornly refused to play a game like basketball, and never learned to skate or swim. I ws fairly decent at tennis in my 30s. I played a round of golf once, nobody believed that it was my first time, and I quit while I was ahead.
I feel that my life has not been diminished in the slightest by the absence of these experiences. But I still have a passionate love for baseball. Baseball transcends mere sport---it is the essence of the universe.
There are schools that have enough kids that attend for 2 or 3 football teams. They want to play. So, let them. Let them compete as well.
There are junior varsity teams, scout teams, practice squads or as I called them "blocking dummies".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium
I don't think everybody gets a trophy, but I am not interested in the least of watching the same 3 hero's travel through school on a football team. That isn't competition, that is the same 3 hero's traveling through school.
You don't see effort those 3 put into their training. When my jr. high football season was over, I moved up to the senior high team to practice with them for the last 2 weeks of their season. During the first practice on Monday I was knocked unconcious by an upper classman. Instead of quitting, I sucked it up and worked even harder. As a 9th grader, I got some playing time in that Friday's game. I was trampled by a guy on the other team that started for a D-1 NCAA school the next year. I worked hard during the next week of practice and almost got a starting position due to injury. I worked hard during the off-season and earned a starting position the next year. Not bad for a 185 pound, 15 year old, offensive tackle where the O-line averaged 250 pounds (my 180 pounds brought down the average weight). I played in a total of 33 high school football games and started 31 in a row.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6
Anyone who played HS football can understand the value of it, it's those who were not lucky enough to play that don't get it.
I feel the same way. I pulled ligaments in my spine. I've dislocated my right shoulder more times than I can count. I even broke an elbow. I was never carried off the field. In fact, I only missed 1 offensive play during my 31 starts and that wasn't due to injury. I broke my helmet and had to go borrow one from a team mate while the manager fixed mine.
I also know this took a toll on me. My knees ache and make popping sounds. My neck makes a grinding noise when I turn my head. I have spot on my elbow where I can see the torn ligament under the skin. If I relaxe my right shoulder, it will just fall out of socket. It's been 22 years since I played football and I'd give anything to go back and do it again. Go rent the movie "The Replacements" and you will understand.
In sweden where i live it's kind of like that, everyone always gets a medal in sports, the kids are discouraged to chose teams by picking player by player since noone should be chosen last, and even if you don't pass half your high-school classes you can still go to college (which is free in sweden), etc.
Ah and another silly thing on valentines day many schools forbid the kids from giving roses to eachother, because some don't get roses while others get plenty.
I was always shy and probably not much of a looker, and I'm still kind of a silent type, so I was never on the recieving end, but I mean what the hell, let the kids give roses on valentines day, it's a nice surprice for some, a good feeling of confirmation for others and a much needed reality check for others...
When it comes to sports, as many as possible should be allowed to play IMO, so if there is anough kids for a second or even a third team, why not? I mean everyone can't be pros but at highschool level, how many are gonna be pros anyway? There will still be competition about being starters, being on the best team, etc.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
