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Every year thousands of people take an oath of allegiance in front of the judge to become Americans.
Not born and bred here, but naturalized, yet - still Americans.
People of all ethnicities, backgrounds and skin colors are joining the American “melting pot”
They are Americans too
I don't think melting pot is a good analogy for America. A melting pot applies all the ingredients come together for form a new mixture. America is more like a salad. Distinct pieces all jumbled up, but something good is made in the process.
'I stand for straight Americanism, unconditioned and unqualified, and I stand against every form of hyphenated Americanism.' -Teddy Roosevelt (1916)
Roosevelt elaborated in the same speech, that hyphenated Americanism creates bitter factions within America. Just a historical thought/take..
Unfortunately Roosevelt was like many elites of his era were great with word play but didn't necessarily practice what they preached. He wasn't George Wallace level racist, but was still fairly racist.
Historians say that Roosevelt’s ideas about progress and attitudes on race can be traced back to the mainstream culture of manifest destiny in 19th century America. This popular belief defended the idea that American settlers, who were primarily white, had the right and duty to expand their territory across the North American continent from the founding 13 colonies to California.
Most blacks have been in the United States since colonial times just like most whites.
Not accurate. I remember reading, and I don't recall where, that only 2 out of 5 white Americans have ancestors who were here before the Civil War. The bulk of European immigration happened in the late 19th century and onward.
It would be interesting to know how many black people arrived from Africa to live forever in the USA *after* the emancipation proclamation/civil war. A timeline. Those with ancestors here before the 1860s would truly be “foundational” Americans by now. Those early-after would be intriguing in that they were either recruited due to special skills, wanted to find family members, or wanted to escape the oppression and wars of their homeland.
It would be cool if ancestry type DNA tests could help descendant families discover their roots. And if an involved historian could write this up as a formal study.
The test of a definition or label, is how egregious are the unintended consequences. Elon Musk is quite literally an "African American". Was that the intent? Imagine if Tesla or Space-X were, in earlier stages of their life as corporations, applying for a federal government grant, with set-aside for disadvantages minorities. Would Mr. Musk's companies be eligible as "minority owned businesses"... because he's an African American? Seems bizarre, and downright foolish.
Great points. Neither 'African' nor 'American' are races, they are nationalities containing people of all colors & ethnicities. Dumbest label yet we've managed to come up with and I would love to see it fade out of use.
Sometimes when filling out forms or surveys, if the language being used annoys me and I'm feeling testy I'll check African American as my race, based on the premise that my parents came to the US from South Africa, even though I'm white.
There are many instances of news reporters or interviewers referring to someone as "African American", say a celebrity or someone in the news, yet they are British or Canadian and have no connection to Africa or America.
I don't think melting pot is a good analogy for America. A melting pot applies all the ingredients come together for form a new mixture. America is more like a salad. Distinct pieces all jumbled up, but something good is made in the process.
I think we can have it both ways .... both as a melting pot and as a jumble (or checkerboard if you will). While traveling once upon a time we spent a night at a motel in Erie, PA. The venue hosted a wedding party and reception; one partner Polish, the other Irish, that was some reception, trash cans thrown off the motel balcony at 3AM and other hijinks ... the sound of the melting pot steaming away. All the marriages between nationalities, religions and races are the melting pot component of our stew. Others will keep to their square on America's checkerboard. Either way, it's all good. To each their own, as ordained by our Constitution (Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness). YMMV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
Not accurate. I remember reading, and I don't recall where, that only 2 out of 5 white Americans have ancestors who were here before the Civil War. The bulk of European immigration happened in the late 19th century and onward.
That's my understanding as well. The peak of Irish emigration resulted from the Great Famine of 1845-1852, aka the Potato Famine. The death roster of the Union Army from the Civil War is replete with the names of tons of Irishmen who served. Other groups came later. Between 1815 and 1915 over 30M Europeans migrated here. Most of them assimilated quickly though often times the older generation spoke their native tongues while the young ones quickly picked up speaking English and melted into the mix.
For a good visual on the people who came here, this Neil Diamond music video is an excellent teacher:
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Separate people generally do not know or understand other categories and labels.
Lack of knowledge leads to distrust.
Distrust leads to more separation.
More separation leads to more distrust.
Ultimately, we are not the "United States" but the many hyphenated, labeled people separated by categories.
You're overthinking it.
Labels are merely classifications, and classification is a normal behavior for human beings as a means of sorting a flood of information out. Humans are inundated with information on a daily basis. We need to break things down to think through things.
Regarding the use of labeling. It's naïve to disregard labels. Doing so doesn't change anything. Plenty of countries that don't describe to racial labels at least on paper, yet issues of discrimination persist. Latin America is a good example. A black Brazilian or Colombian will still be treated as different even if there isn't technically a government label. Human beings are inherently tribal and will always find a means in which to form a "us versus them, situation." Instead of pretending or hoping such problems will go away, or choosing to ignore them, why don't we just acknowledge this human flaw and implement policies to counter it.
It can be done, and Singapore and modern Rwanda is probably the best examples of countries taking this tactic, although these states are more on the authoritative side so implementing such polices is was easier.
I saw it in a very different situation as a school principal. I would have some parents come in and demand special education services for their son or daughter because they're (for example) autistic, "But don't you put that in writing in my child's file. I don't want them to be labeled". The problem isn't the label, it's what people do with the label.
Recently I stumble on this video about a wave of African Americans that are rejecting that term and simply say they are Americans. This isn't an attempt of "racial denying" or even denying they consider themselves black, but rather the basis is:
- Most blacks have been in the United States since colonial times just like most whites.
- Blacks also took part (though their recognition is still not enough, IMO) in the Revolutionary War that basically made the USA. Blacks have also been a part of every single war the USA has been in including the Civil War on both sides.
- All blacks have some ancestry from Africa, but they aren't Africans and neither their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc.
Why is it when whites simply say they are Americans there is no issue, but if blacks say they are Americans and not just African-Americans many times an issue arises?
Now, this is a discussion that black Americans should have. I'm not an African-American, so what I think about this is sort of moot. I will say this, I have always seen Africsn Americans simply as Americans because they are. I think as a way to further help the USA move away from race and become a country where race snd color truly doesn't matter, the first step is not just for black Americans to simply say they are Americans with no hyphen, but the rest of American society see them as an integral part of American society and in a way mot some sort of "other." See them simply as Americans too. Barack Obama is a true African Americsn because his mother was American and his father was an actual African, born and raised there. Most black Americans descend from people that have lived their entire lives in the USA. It's ridiculous to see black Americans as so e eoet of foreigners in thrir own land, as if they aren't "real" Americans (not the "right type" of Americans?) when in fact they are just as Americans as most of the whites and, in a way, "more" Americans than actual foreigners in the USA.
What do Americans, particularly black Americans, think about this?
PS. I don't follow the "rule" of always writing a non-white "race" with a capital initial. Quite frankly, to me race and color is secondary, something unimportant about someone and as such, I treat all "racial" lsbels with the same rule. Capital letters if they are the first word in a sentence, otherwise no. To me, people distinguish themselves by their personal qualities.
PS2. I also see this as black Americans still struggling to get recognition as the full fledge Americans that they are. I find it kind of ridiculous that at more than 200 years this is still an issue of a segment of its population that has been in the USA since before it was the USA. When you think about, the black American struggle regarding this is simpky summarized with a group of people that simply wanted to be part of the USA on equal terms and their own country denied them that. I see this as an extension of that, sort of saying "you are not the 'real' Americans" when they have been in Georgia, in South Carolina, in Louisiana, etc since "ever."
What do you suggest the US Census call them?
And btw, it was Jesse Jackson who coined the term "African American". It caught on internationally, in human rights organizations and such, before it caught on in the Black community. If the community wants to retire it, they can.
Recently I stumble on this video about a wave of African Americans that are rejecting that term and simply say they are Americans. This isn't an attempt of "racial denying" or even denying they consider themselves black, but rather the basis is:
- Most blacks have been in the United States since colonial times just like most whites.*************
PS. I don't follow the "rule" of always writing a non-white "race" with a capital initial.
I am trying to write a thoughtful, sensitive post and I apologize in advance if anyone is offended. This is unfortunately, especially after recent events in the Middle East and around college campuses. a delicate topic.
My own ethnicity is Jewish. I use the capitalized term as it has been used for a long time by religions as opposed to races. I think that to see a lot of society through racial lenses is tragically wrong. The law firm with which I am associated was the first firm to have a minority equity partner, and one of the first to have a female equity partner. That person became an equity partner, I believe, in 2004. Black people as well as Jewish, Czech, Hungarian, English, French, Scandinavian, Italian, Asian and South Asian have all brought their heritage to the table in ways that have made the U.S. an invigorating, stimulating place to live and work. The overall identity, for all of those groups, should be "American." The blacks came largely but not entirely involuntarily as slaves. The Caribbean blacks came largely through voluntary migration. The incentives for other groups to come may have been economic inducements verging on extortion, such as railway workers, rank fraud, or may have been entirely voluntary. Yet all have contributed cuisine, music, and words to the English language as spoken in the U.S.
We should not, as a country, "Balkanize" ourselves by voluntary/involuntary or by the identity of origin. We should not encourage people to "play victim." There is a lot here for everyone, and the more, the harder we work, the larger the pie for everyone. As far as "Balkanization" I have a Jewish friend who married a woman who hails from Singapore. Their daughter attended a prestigious university and is married to a white person from Texas. Is their daughter Singaporean or, as is my friend, Jewish? Are their children Texan/Singaporean/Jewish? Or Texan/Singaporean/Russian? Russia is the place of origin for many of my friend's parents. Does it matter? Is even thinking of this ridiculous to the point of absurdity.
One of my work colleague's parents is Jewish, the other of French derivation. Same question. Does either affect what professional or life choices they made? Or what they bring to the table?
P.S. - My (mostly vinyl) record collection includes music from Africa (Babunte Olatunji's "Drums of Passion," including the Santana song performed at Woodstock Jingo), lots of Caribbean calypso, including Lord Byron, Duke of Iron, Macbeth the Great and some "Americanized" calypso such as Harry Belafonte), Irving Burgie (author of Dayo, Island in the Sun), and some reggae, including Toots and the Maytals and or course Bob Marley), Canadian and Newfoundland Music, etc. As for food, my older son and I outcompete each other for "exotic" food such as deeply Latino food, Russian food, Israeli and Mid-Eastern food, etc. Maybe not typical for Americans but we do exist. This is what I mean by the enrichment of America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR
PS2. I also see this as black Americans still struggling to get recognition as the full fledge Americans that they are. I find it kind of ridiculous that at more than 200 years this is still an issue of a segment of its population that has been in the USA since before it was the USA. When you think about, the black American struggle regarding this is simply summarized with a group of people that simply wanted to be part of the USA on equal terms and their own country denied them that. I see this as an extension of that, sort of saying "you are not the 'real' Americans" when they have been in Georgia, in South Carolina, in Louisiana, etc since "ever."
The acceptance should run in both directions. And, correctly, this has the force of law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major
I don't think melting pot is a good analogy for America. A melting pot applies all the ingredients come together for form a new mixture. America is more like a salad. Distinct pieces all jumbled up, but something good is made in the process.
Last edited by jbgusa; 01-06-2024 at 06:52 PM..
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