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I had expected that this thread would involve people actually thinking about the treatments that people absolutely have a RIGHT to have. That's an interesting moral question.
But it seems that most of you believe that everyone has a RIGHT to ALL health care treatments for every possible health condition.
That seems naive to me, and even immoral. There's a difference between a RIGHT to something and a need for something or a desire for something.
Do I have a RIGHT to have cosmetic plastic surgery? Does someone who is 90 have a RIGHT to a liver transplant?
There does have to be some definition at some point about the things we have a RIGHT to v the things we would all like to have to feel good and live forever.
I don't think everyone should have a right to elective cosmetic surgery. That would not be a "need". But those who are likely to survive a procedure, or who wish to pay the fare, should have whatever it is that's medically necessary to sustain life. Everything that extends or improves life is a learning experience.
How the hell does it violate personal rights?
You have a personal right to get care if you get sick.
Or maybe you'd prefer a personal right to DIE QUICKLY if you get sick.
No one has a personal "right" to be cared for in case of sickness or even accident.
It is by way of human compassion that we do care for those in need of medical assistance.
When we pay our "health care" insurance premiums it is with the understanding that the money will be used for those in need, and that we may never need such care.
Laws are passed with the intention of the betterment of our society. (well, supposedly)
So we now have a law that everyone chips in to help those in need of sickness care.
Now what we do need is some way to stop abuse of the system. Just because your child throws up his breakfast doesn't mean you should rush him to the E.R. taking up valuable resources. We seriously need education on self-care for minor health problems. People who have the flu should be barred from Doctor's offices as they only expose others to their disease. They also should not go to work with some mistaken idea that they are being heroic. Maybe there should be a separate flu dispensary of some sort.
I asked you how much? How much money would we save if we kept military to protect our own borders, as you said, which I agree with.
Next question: how much would it take for UHC? Would the savings cover it?
I am not being facetious, I am just simply curious. Since you brought it up, you should provide the math for it.
considering that the Pentagon spends 500 bucks for a toilet seat...and the cost of building and then maintaining just ONE nuclear bomb...I don't think I need to show any math. It's common sense that if you cut all the waste from the Pentagon there would be more than enough for everything else.
No one has a personal "right" to be cared for in case of sickness or even accident.
It is by way of human compassion that we do care for those in need of medical assistance.
When we pay our "health care" insurance premiums it is with the understanding that the money will be used for those in need, and that we may never need such care.
Laws are passed with the intention of the betterment of our society. (well, supposedly)
So we now have a law that everyone chips in to help those in need of sickness care.
Now what we do need is some way to stop abuse of the system. Just because your child throws up his breakfast doesn't mean you should rush him to the E.R. taking up valuable resources. We seriously need education on self-care for minor health problems. People who have the flu should be barred from Doctor's offices as they only expose others to their disease. They also should not go to work with some mistaken idea that they are being heroic. Maybe there should be a separate flu dispensary of some sort.
There are SO MANY things wrong with what you just said...
First..."provide for the general welfare" - well, I'd say that providing healthcare is providing for the general welfare...or would you rather the person stay sick and get worse and infect others?
There is certainly a case to be made that such IS "providing for the common welfare"
I agree with you about abuse of the system - but you have NO IDEA why it happens. I work in medicine, and I can tell you why.
These people do NOT have health insurance, and BY LAW, HOSPITALS CANNOT TURN THEM AWAY. So they go to the hospital...for something you would not really need to. If these people HAD insurance, they probably would go to a normal doctor like other people do. Now, thanks to ACA, they probably will have insurance.
Now, the most assinine thing you have said is that people with the flu should be barred from doctor's offices! Just exactly how are they supposed to obtain medical help then?
Have you BEEN to a doctor's office during flu season? They have masks and gloves RIGHT AT TH DOOR...and they have a sign instructing anyone with flu symptoms to USE THEM.
I work in a doctor's office on the days when I am not working out of my home office. People who work in a doctor's office tend to build up better resistance than most people because we are CONSTANTLY exposed to sick people/germs.
This does not hold for patients, though...they don't have that benefit - which costs you in the first year of your working there with being sick just about every week, lol. But have you ever heard of getting a flu shot? Usually this will be sufficient to protect you. I get one every year, in fact, the doctor I work with administers it...because it is REQUIRED for all who work in the doctor's office. Not so much so that WE won't get sick...but rather...so that we won't get sick and pass it on to patients!
and most people do not go to work sick out of some misguided sense of being "heroic" they do it because they do not have paid time off, and can't afford to not get paid. Not saying I excuse this sort of behavior, but, understanding WHY people do it...might lead you towards a solution to prevent it from happening so often, ya think?
In 1,000 years (if we make it that far) will people be more shocked that...
A. Humans once harvested cotton, combined it with linen, cut the end product into rectangles and then exchanged it for natural elements and knowledge (which is essentially health care)?
Equal police protection is also not a "right." Like Health Care, we can afford it and agree to fund it as a society. Education is also not a right, it is done because society agrees that it's prudent and funds the amount of support it can. You cannot have a "right' that forces other people to pay for it.
The constitution of every state provides for free public education.
The US Supreme Court, nor any Federal Court has ever interpreted the US Constitution in a manner that guarantees to US residents a right to the provision of healthcare by the Federal government. And this will never change in your lifetime, like it or not.
But even if no such right exists, that doesn't mean that the Congress can't pass and the President can't sign bills to "promote the general welfare".
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler Equal police protection is also not a "right." Like Health Care, we can afford it and agree to fund it as a society. Education is also not a right, it is done because society agrees that it's prudent and funds the amount of support it can. You cannot have a "right' that forces other people to pay for it.
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Sure you can.
Explain to me then, why it is the law of the land that I carry liability insurance on my car?
You have a right to expect that I will pay for damages I may cause to your car or body, or property...with my car.
But what if I am a gaziliionaire, and could afford to pay out of my pocket any damages? I still have to carry insurance, anyway!
Now, I know in Texas, you USED to...and maybe still can...post a sufficiently large bond as to be exempt from carrying auto insurance, but then that money is also out of your reach forever...unless you cancel the bond and then buy insurance.
One way or another...your right to be protected from my actions behind the wheel...is a right that you have and I am forced to pay for.
Not that I'm complaining, I am just pointing out that you CAN and DO have rights that force other people to pay for them.
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(well, supposedly)
