If DC Was Never Created...Then Northern Virginia/Mid-Arlantic would......

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by $mk8795

Umm hmm, and at the end if the day Maryland is still a southern state which makes DC a Southern city despite opposing opinions.

Lol

[wisvishr0]

$mk8795: I don't understand what the basis of your argument is (why is your opinion better than mine? Both are valid, don't you think?), but I'm glad I got to see your point of view. If you have any real support for your argument, I'd love to hear it! Otherwise, we're getting sidetracked: there are plenty of other threads that deal with why DC might be Northern or Southern, and I found that there are good, valid points for both sides. I just happen to favor one over the other based on my personal experience.

Anyways, $mk8795, how do you think Georgetown would have changed if DC hadn't been created? I'd love to hear what you think!

[$mk8795]

Originally Posted by wisvishr0

$mk8795: I don't understand what the basis of your argument is (why is your opinion better than mine? Both are valid, don't you think?), but I'm glad I got to see your point of view. If you have any real support for your argument, I'd love to hear it! Otherwise, we're getting sidetracked: there are plenty of other threads that deal with why DC might be Northern or Southern, and I found that there are good, valid points for both sides. I just happen to favor one over the other based on my personal experience.

Anyways, $mk8795, how do you think Georgetown would have changed if DC hadn't been created? I'd love to hear what you think!

Georgetown would just be another version of Alexandria.

[Hudlander]

Originally Posted by aquest1

Harrisburg is an entirely different animal with a different history and significance. It makes for a poor comparison. In PA, Philadelphia has always held the cards as the center of gravity. Even at times when Pitt could have even been considered the richer city, Philly was still more important to PA. Harrisburg is and always has been just the capital - a nice town no less. Historically, Richmond's role in Virginia has been more central and important to the state, than Harrisburg was to PA. This is in part because Richmond was where all the wealthy landowners did their business, where the lawyers were, bankers, peddlers, and unfortunate financiers of the nasty slave trade all did their thing. In Virginia, Richmond has always been the personifier of the state even if it wasn't the biggest city, and people were drawn there for this reason. And even in Hampton Roads with Norfolk, Richmond is still considered the center of things. For PA, Philly was the place of business in much the same way, but for different reasons. These types of things have inertia and over time certain industries become entrenched and grow. And Philly's weight certainly does impact Harrisburg. When I lived in Ardmore, Pa you better believe that there were literally dozens of super-commuters who worked in PA state gov't that took the (heavily subsidized) Keystone line from Philly on a daily basis, to and from Harrisburg, because they did not want to live there. In fact, I was one of those people for a short time.

Keep in mind that the balance of power in terms of states in the late 1700s was also much different than today. Virginia was big and held a lot of clout, having the biggest population and important public figures. When the Federalist Papers were published, they were published in New York, Philadelphia, Boston, and Richmond. The folks at the constitutional convention had agreed that the new constitution would officially "outlaw" the transatlantic slave trade (but not the selling of slaves domestically) and in turn the new capital would be in the south. Washington picked the Potomac, probably because it was close to where he lived and basically half way between the new states. So, had the capital been placed elsewhere, it may well have been somewhere like Federicksburg, VA or Annapolis, MD.

If capital had stayed in NY, which is where it was at the time of the Philadelphia Convention, I imagine that Baltimore would actually be a wealthier city, but not necessarily any larger or smaller. It's just that more wealth would have gravitated there, the natural port city, than to a federal behemoth neighbor to the south. And if you look at the industries that dot the DC suburbs in Virginia, many of those didn't even exist 20-30 years ago. They were farmlands. Thus, Northern VA as we know it might not even exist at all. It would likely be very similar to North Carolina. In Richmond's case, there is a lot of people flow between Richmond and the DC area, and while I imagine the city would be larger than it is now (given less outflow to NoVA), the city would probably be like a large version of Winston-Salem, quite quintessentially Southern, conservative, and there would be no debate about what kind of state Virginia is. So much of Virginia has to do with proximity and ties to the capital that it also loses those perks like (Langley, Quantico, CIA, Pentagon, Norfolk Naval Base, the list goes on). I honestly do not see Hampton Roads holding on to that naval base. Maryland as whole would probably be like Virginia is today with people claiming that Baltimore is not really Northern/Southern. ...And it would also be swing state.

I agree with all but what you said about Philly holding the gravitational pull of PA.
That belongs to Pittsburgh.
Once you get out of the Delaware and even Lehigh Valley I see a lot of Philly hate.
Call it Pennsytucky, but it seems to me Pittsburgh carries far bigger weight and identity be it in sports or culture and economics in all other PA regions.
In fact it almost is like Philly is a city without a state loyalty except for Delaware.

[DC's Finest]

Originally Posted by $mk8795

Umm hmm, and at the end if the day Maryland is still a southern state which makes DC a Southern city despite opposing opinions.

Great post! That reminds me. I need to go buy me another Confederate Flag.