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Chicago and NYC have in one respect a similar function with respect to the USA. Both have areas, the Magnificent Mile and Times Square (nowadays), that serve as urban settings for brand showcases. As an example, only two of these locations are urban, vs. suburban: American Girl Stores | American Girl ® - NYC and Chicago. Or, how about urban showcases for this PA company: http://www.hersheys.com/visit-us.aspx Here's another example: LEGO.com LEGO Stores Home - All Stores - only urban stores are NYC, Chicago, and if Downtown Disney counts.
This isn't true, though.
Many of these types of flagship-type stores are also in cities like SF, Boston, LA, Miami, DC and Philly too. And NYC has like 20 times as many of these stores as any other U.S. city, whether looking at Chicago, SF, wherever.
For example, American Girl Place has a store right in the middle of downtown SF. In fact, more central than the downtown Chicago location, which is on the North Side, and not in the heart of the Loop.
And I can name lots of flagships that are in other U.S. city cores, but not in Chicago. Putting aside NYC for a minute, Chicago has no Lord & Taylor downtown, but Boston does. Chicago has no Uniqlo downtown, but SF does. Chicago has no Unami Burger downtown, but LA does.
And Times Square and Michigan Ave. aren't super similar, outside of the fact that they are busy and touristy. They serve different roles in the city.
Many of these types of flagship-type stores are also in cities like SF, Boston, LA, Miami, DC and Philly too. And NYC has like 20 times as many of these stores as any other U.S. city, whether looking at Chicago, SF, wherever.
For example, American Girl Place has a store right in the middle of downtown SF. In fact, more central than the downtown Chicago location, which is on the North Side, and not in the heart of the Loop.
And I can name lots of flagships that are in other U.S. city cores, but not in Chicago. Putting aside NYC for a minute, Chicago has no Lord & Taylor downtown, but Boston does. Chicago has no Uniqlo downtown, but SF does. Chicago has no Unami Burger downtown, but LA does.
And Times Square and Michigan Ave. aren't super similar, outside of the fact that they are busy and touristy. They serve different roles in the city.
Not saying you started this, but arguing which city has what store in general is rather ridiculous. Especially since many of of the big department stores are more regionally focused rather than nationally focused. For example, NYC didn't just get their first Nordstrom until last year. Also, there was a Lord & Taylor up until recently. The manager of Water Tower Place declined to renew Lord & Taylor's lease. They were replaced by the aforementioned American Girl.
Specific stores aside though, are you really going to argue that the shopping on the Magnificent Mile isn't downtown enough? The Magnificent Mile starts less than a mile away from City Hall.
Not saying you started this, but arguing which city has what store in general is rather ridiculous. Especially since many of of the big department stores are more regionally focused rather than nationally focused. For example, NYC didn't just get their first Nordstrom until last year. Also, there was a Lord & Taylor up until recently. The manager of Water Tower Place declined to renew Lord & Taylor's lease. They were replaced by the aforementioned American Girl.
Well you were the one who claimed that NYC and Chicago were unique in that they were the only cities with downtown flagships.
This is obviously untrue, and I just pointed out that there are tons of other cities with downtown flagships, and that Chicago is more similar to all those cities in terms of downtown flagships than to NYC. I'm not even sure if Chicago is #2, as SF, in particular, has a ton of international flagships.
And for Lord & Taylor, it had nothing to do with "landlord declined to renew lease". L&T had poor sales in that location, and closed before the lease had even ended. And the site sat vacant for a while, until American Girl took part of the space, and a family-friendly theater took the other half.
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Originally Posted by PerseusVeil
Specific stores aside though, are you really going to argue that the shopping on the Magnificent Mile isn't downtown enough? The Magnificent Mile starts less than a mile away from City Hall.
I agree that the Mag Mile is downtown, but you claimed that American Girl place only has downtown stores in NYC and Chicago, yet their downtown SF location is literally at the very heart of their downtown core.
It would be like if American Girl were at State and Madison in downtown Chicago, so I didn't get why you used American Girl as an example for why SF doesn't have downtown flagships. If anything, they have arguably more flagship-style retail than in Chicago.
Well you were the one who claimed that NYC and Chicago were unique in that they were the only cities with downtown flagships.
I'd double check who you're responding too, because I stated no such thing.
The only other comment I have in this thread is one in which I stated that part of Philly's problem was its location.
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And for Lord & Taylor, it had nothing to do with "landlord declined to renew lease". L&T had poor sales in that location, and closed before the lease had even ended. And the site sat vacant for a while, until American Girl took part of the space, and a family-friendly theater took the other half.
It didn't sit empty for long. Lord left in 2007, the space was renovated, and American Girl moved in in 2008 following the renovation.
I'd double check who you're responding too, because I stated no such thing.
The only other comment I have in this thread is one in which I stated that part of Philly's problem was its location.
You're right, and I apologize. Another former made that claim. But if you don't agree with that claim, what was the point in your response? My point is that Chicago is not unique in hosting flagships.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil
It didn't sit empty for long. Lord left in 2007, the space was renovated, and American Girl moved in in 2008 following the renovation.
And the theater followed a few years later. American Girl only took a fraction of L&T space. I was just saying it wasn't a lease dispute; it was an issue with L&T sales at that location.
Many of these types of flagship-type stores are also in cities like SF, Boston, LA, Miami, DC and Philly too. And NYC has like 20 times as many of these stores as any other U.S. city, whether looking at Chicago, SF, wherever.
For example, American Girl Place has a store right in the middle of downtown SF. In fact, more central than the downtown Chicago location, which is on the North Side, and not in the heart of the Loop.
And I can name lots of flagships that are in other U.S. city cores, but not in Chicago. Putting aside NYC for a minute, Chicago has no Lord & Taylor downtown, but Boston does. Chicago has no Uniqlo downtown, but SF does. Chicago has no Unami Burger downtown, but LA does.
And Times Square and Michigan Ave. aren't super similar, outside of the fact that they are busy and touristy. They serve different roles in the city.
I'm not sure what your counterpoint is. The website indicates the following for the "San Francisco" store:
"Welcome to American Girl San Francisco
Come to Stanford Shopping Center in San Francisco, where girls can enjoy their favorite shops, casual dining in the Bistro, and extra-special celebrations. change location
660 Stanford Shopping Center, Palo Alto, CA 94304"
Now I'm not very familiar with SF but this does not seem to be a hyper-urban core location.
As for American Girl, there is not one of their stores anywhere in PA - not Center City Philly, not King of Prussia, not Pittsburgh. Their stores in other metros are suburban - except in NYC and Chicago.
I am a bit more familiar with Chicago, and it doesn't seem that being beside the water tower and close to the John Hancock building makes it a suburban location compared to being right inside the Loop which always seems to be less pedestrian and shopping oriented anymore compared to the MM.
Is the MM different from Times Square? Of course, perhaps more in degree than kind nowadays though. What in Philly is like either?
You're right, and I apologize. Another former made that claim. But if you don't agree with that claim, what was the point in your response? My point is that Chicago is not unique in hosting flagships.
I probably shouldn't have commented without reading the whole exchange, as I don't think having flagships makes Chicago unique.
I primarily decided to make a quick comment when I saw the Mag Mile not being very downtown bit.
I don’t think of Chicago as a true Hipster city (like New York, San Francisco, Austin, Portland, Seattle, etc.). It has a lot of young, well-educated, Creative Class types—but it’s a different demographic. More Yuppie than Hipster.
Philly does have an up-and-coming Hipster scene. Mainly the people who are priced out of Brooklyn. I don’t want to get into race baiting, but Philly’s culture and overall vibe feels very Black (and borderline ghetto). It feels more like Baltimore and even Detroit than New York or Chicago. Of course, New York and Chicago have enormous African American populations that contribute to the culture of those cities, but it’s not the dominant tone.
Agreed. Chicago much more dominated by Big 10 and midwest schools in general giving it a much more yuppie than hipster vibe.
Philly's culture is gentrifying so the black and borderline ghetto culture is being diminished over time. That said, I know what you mean Philly; especially, its recent past. South Philly, Northern Liberties, Fishtown, North Broad, University City and South Philly, east and west of Broad are seeing a lot of Center City spillover.
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