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I think these people are crazy. It's really insulting to suggest places such as Boston or Saint Louis or even parts of the South, when the OP specifically wanted a true winter. This happens every time someone who wants some cold and snow or some seasonality comes to this forum for advice. You people have corrupted and devalued the concept of a snowy winter or a true winter so much it isn't funny. Minneapolis summers mild? MILD!? It has highs in the 80's with high humidity. This must come from the same bunch of morons that think anything below 70F is cold. The OP liked Flagstaff, so obviously 70's and 80's is fine for them, and is probably what was meant by warm and hot. "Nice, snowy winters" to a winter lover means a true winter with lots of snow, forming a continuing snowpack, that doesn't melt all the time. It also requires persisting cold, sometimes bitter cold (and no, not the 30F phony kind of "bitter cold", but below zero). Many of the places suggested are mild/warm and rainy all the time in winter with occasional snow that usually melts within a few days, with some years having practically nothing. There are few things more divorced from the OP's vision than that. If a heat lover came here and said that she wanted "nice, warm summers and mild winters", I wouldn't try to send them off to Anchorage, but that's the precise equivalent of what's going on here.
I reiterate my previous post, since many people here can't seem to learn a lesson:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus
These posters suggesting these destinations are so off-base with the original intent of this topic it's comical. Some have twisted the concept of snowy winters so much that is devoid of meaning. Also hot enough to have a barbecue, presumably in the evening, was also a requirement. Summer BBQs are usually best held in low humidity conditions, with a low number of bugs, in a moderate amount of heat. The OP wanted a place hot enough to have a barbeque at night, not someplace liable to give him heat stroke every so often.
[...]
"Lovely winters with lots of snow" pretty much excludes most of the country you're trying to move to; nevertheless there are places that may suit you. I have similar preferences myself, so I have a better idea of what you're talking about. Any place that only gets a smattering of snow, which would include all these 20-incher cities, or anyplace that warms up and rains often in wintertime will not be favorable. Presumably you want a winter whose primary characteristic is snowy weather, which includes having ongoing snow for the duration of the winter (December-February) and having snow lying on the ground. Leave out the chinook wind areas, especially where they overlap with areas that don't get a lot of snow - what little they do get will frequently melt.
I also agree with another poster that anywhere that gets rain of any significant duration during the winter is probably a no-go for you.
[...]
Perhaps the Black Hills of South Dakota would be suitable. Lead, South Dakota (here and here) features 131 inches of snow per year, as well as warm and dry summers. It can get quite warm in winter but doesn't suffer as much from chinook winds as other parts of the High Plains. I'm not sure if snow from September to June is quite what you're looking for, but it has warmer summer nights than many other higher-altitude locations.
Denver, while sporting 50 inches of snow per year, also sports frequent melting (due to chinook winds) and an average high temperature of 7C in winter. Although summers may still be suitable, around 31C for average highs, it may be a bit hot. However, Evergreen, a suburb, is somewhat better than Denver and you may want to take a look.
Parts of Colorado west of the continental divide offer superbly snowy weather in winter along with what are probably suitable temperatures for your tastes. They also feature cooler nights overall than the Black Hills, and may have just as many sub-40 nights as Flagstaff does. Summer highs, however, may be suitable in many spots.
Aspen, Colorado (another dataset here) may be what you're looking for. It has 134 inches of snow per year, running from October to May. Its snowfall is more concentrated in the winter months than in the Black Hills or Denver, which may be a plus for you. Summer highs, around 25C, seem to match your summer proviso. Nights are cooler than the Black Hills (5-8C).
Jackson, Wyoming, while having much cooler nights in summer, seems to be about right for you during summer days. Winters there are less prone to melting than the Black Hills (monthly record highs 10-13C), and are colder, with highs just below freezing. Snow averages 71 inches per year there, still concentrated in the winter months but averaging less overall than Aspen.
You may also want to look into Lake Tahoe, although that seems less suited to you.
Casper, Wyoming averages 84 inches of snow a year, spread out over the season (Sep-May) and peaking in April, and it has weaker chinook winds so it may not be as suitable as some places. Summers, however, look about right for you (30/10C or so), and winter highs average just above freezing.
These are some suggestions that I could think of that may be suitable. Now going off on a limb, there's a chance you might like climates in the Alaska Panhandle or South Central Alaska. Summers are cooler than you seem to like, but some of them are reliably snowy in winter. Also browse the snowiest places in America, and you may find some there you might like. Boonville, New York, although humid in the summer, seems to fit your temperature and snow preferences to a tee.
Have fun trying to find a great climate. Hopefully you'll find one you like and make the plunge. It's well worth it in my view.
I think these people are crazy. It's really insulting to suggest places such as Boston or Saint Louis or even parts of the South, when the OP specifically wanted a true winter. This happens every time someone who wants some cold and snow or some seasonality comes to this forum for advice. You people have corrupted and devalued the concept of a snowy winter or a true winter so much it isn't funny. Minneapolis summers mild? MILD!? It has highs in the 80's with high humidity. This must come from the same bunch of morons that think anything below 70F is cold. The OP liked Flagstaff, so obviously 70's and 80's is fine for them, and is probably what was meant by warm and hot. "Nice, snowy winters" to a winter lover means a true winter with lots of snow, forming a continuing snowpack, that doesn't melt all the time. It also requires persisting cold, sometimes bitter cold (and no, not the 30F phony kind of "bitter cold", but below zero). Many of the places suggested are mild/warm and rainy all the time in winter with occasional snow that usually melts within a few days, with some years having practically nothing. There are few things more divorced from the OP's vision than that. If a heat lover came here and said that she wanted "nice, warm summers and mild winters", I wouldn't try to send them off to Anchorage, but that's the precise equivalent of what's going on here.
I reiterate my previous post, since many people here can't seem to learn a lesson:
lol 80's with high humidity is far from hot. When your heat index is over 110 on a regular basis, then you can talk about having a real summer. If many places where you are from still don't have air conditioning, chances are you do not have a real summer.
I never claimed my part of Missouri has a real winter, but I am also from the warmest corner of the state (And lowest elevation).
Many of the places suggested are mild/warm and rainy all the time in winter with occasional snow that usually melts within a few days, with some years having practically nothing. There are few things more divorced from the OP's vision than that.
Part of the problem is that the OP didn't define what they meant by nice snowy winters. If they are coming from an area with nearly non existent snowfall a snowy winter in their eyes could consist of snowfall that others might consider mild or moderate.
Compared to where I lived along the Gulf Coast, the area I'm in now has a nice amount of snowfall IMO, but if I compare it to where I lived in the Midwest then it's nothing. It's all relative. Unless the OP comes back to clarify I think the argument is moot.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,097,146 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus
I think these people are crazy. It's really insulting to suggest places such as Boston or Saint Louis or even parts of the South, when the OP specifically wanted a true winter. This happens every time someone who wants some cold and snow or some seasonality comes to this forum for advice. You people have corrupted and devalued the concept of a snowy winter or a true winter so much it isn't funny. Minneapolis summers mild? MILD!? It has highs in the 80's with high humidity. This must come from the same bunch of morons that think anything below 70F is cold. The OP liked Flagstaff, so obviously 70's and 80's is fine for them, and is probably what was meant by warm and hot. "Nice, snowy winters" to a winter lover means a true winter with lots of snow, forming a continuing snowpack, that doesn't melt all the time. It also requires persisting cold, sometimes bitter cold (and no, not the 30F phony kind of "bitter cold", but below zero). Many of the places suggested are mild/warm and rainy all the time in winter with occasional snow that usually melts within a few days, with some years having practically nothing. There are few things more divorced from the OP's vision than that. If a heat lover came here and said that she wanted "nice, warm summers and mild winters", I wouldn't try to send them off to Anchorage, but that's the precise equivalent of what's going on here.
I reiterate my previous post, since many people here can't seem to learn a lesson:
Wow...first off, you need to learn to be more ethical. You are a moron if you think that anything above 80 is hot. Minneapolis normally does not reach above the mid-80s and usually is in the lower '80s. I live in a place with hot summers and cold winters...Minneapolis' summers are like spring here and in most of the central U.S. Second off, you're hard pressed to find any place in the U.S. that doesn't get into the '80s in the U.S. Typically, whatever humidity does result in Minny doesn't push the index to unbearable levels. If you think the summers in Minneapolis are horrible, you might as well leave the United States then and go to Canada. I've never met anybody from Minneapolis who complained about the summers there. As far as Boston not getting real winters? What planet are you from? Their average snowfall per year was in excess of 30 inches the last time I checked. And I have said that St. Louis, while its winters are not severe, is capable of severe winters...at least 2 out of 4 winters will be ones with at least two feet of snow.
As far as a place that gives both hot summers and cold winters, all of the places suggested are the ones that come close to doing both. Minneapolis? Hot summers? Get real. Last summer was an extreme anomaly. Temperatures in Minny usually are not bad at all in the summer.
Wow...first off, you need to learn to be more ethical. You are a moron if you think that anything above 80 is hot. Minneapolis normally does not reach above the mid-80s and usually is in the lower '80s. I live in a place with hot summers and cold winters...Minneapolis' summers are like spring here and in most of the central U.S. Second off, you're hard pressed to find any place in the U.S. that doesn't get into the '80s in the U.S. Typically, whatever humidity does result in Minny doesn't push the index to unbearable levels. If you think the summers in Minneapolis are horrible, you might as well leave the United States then and go to Canada. I've never met anybody from Minneapolis who complained about the summers there. As far as Boston not getting real winters? What planet are you from? Their average snowfall per year was in excess of 30 inches the last time I checked. And I have said that St. Louis, while its winters are not severe, is capable of severe winters...at least 2 out of 4 winters will be ones with at least two feet of snow.
As far as a place that gives both hot summers and cold winters, all of the places suggested are the ones that come close to doing both. Minneapolis? Hot summers? Get real. Last summer was an extreme anomaly. Temperatures in Minny usually are not bad at all in the summer.
And you are on the other extreme. Unlike many of the so called experts i deal in the weather. St. Louis, MO is not much of a winter climate period. No more wintry there then it is summery in Minneapolis. Try some place between. This area here has 4 FULL seasons but i did not name it because the OP said lots of snow and the only place where that is possible ( with 4 FULL seasons ) is just a little west of here closer to the Lake Michigan Shore. Average snowfall here is 61 but goes up a inch or so every mile you go further to the west towards the lake and goes down by about that much towards the eastern part of this state. Worcester, MA offers alot of what the OP is looking for as well. Problem for Boston itself and or any city right on the coast in the NE is the marine influence which is a killer in spring and early summer. I believe the OP is trying to get away from that sort of climate. Like with anything in weather there is ALWAYS exceptions and thus years it may snow alot, or be hot in a area that is typically much colder etc. I believe the OP wants something that is RELIABLE not the exception every so many years.
And honestly.. Those suggesting locations in the middle of nowhere who honestly wants to live in those spots especially if there is no jobs or anything else? Yeah i really wanna live in Truckee, CA or some similar place. Not.
And yes i do understand how 2 feet of snow could seem like alot to someone from down south but in all honesty it is not much at all. If it only snows a few days a winter that is not much of a winter/snowy climate. Nor is it a summery place if night time lows are constantly below 50 for all but one month of the summer.
By the sounds of it the OP is looking for RELIABLE 80+ for highs in summer with lows generally upper 50s or warmer for lows and winters with alot of days with snow falling and heavy snows. Sorry but any place that averages less then 30 in a season is not much of a snowy climate.
This website i believe has a list of the snowiest city's in the country. Start from there and then check out the summer climates in each place which you can do via the national Weather service. NOAA's National Weather Service
From ther click on the area of interest and then look at the climo page of that city's national weather service office.
I think it entirely depends on your definition of Winter and Summer.
For instance, I moved to St. Louis from Australia initially. For me, St. Louis winters are *definitely* cold enough and snowy enough. This time I'll be moving back to St. Louis from Coastal Carolina- and *again* the winter will definitely be cold for me in comparison
As for not recommending St. Louis on the grounds of "no jobs". That's derisory considering that St. Louis ranks lower than the national average on unemployment. Coupled with the fact that it's one of the cheapest cities in the nation, I think it's a great option for anyone.
I think we're all jumping to conclusions though on what the OP *really* wanted. They didn't say what a hot summer and snowy winter meant to them.
Missouri weather to me is hot summers and snowy winters- but that's from an Australian transplant's point of view.
My husband too, thinks Missouri has the distinct 'four seasons'. He's from Texas originally. It all depends on the climate you're used to at the end of the day.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,097,146 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryBTL
And you are on the other extreme. Unlike many of the so called experts i deal in the weather. St. Louis, MO is not much of a winter climate period. No more wintry there then it is summery in Minneapolis. Try some place between. This area here has 4 FULL seasons but i did not name it because the OP said lots of snow and the only place where that is possible ( with 4 FULL seasons ) is just a little west of here closer to the Lake Michigan Shore. Average snowfall here is 61 but goes up a inch or so every mile you go further to the west towards the lake and goes down by about that much towards the eastern part of this state. Worcester, MA offers alot of what the OP is looking for as well. Problem for Boston itself and or any city right on the coast in the NE is the marine influence which is a killer in spring and early summer. I believe the OP is trying to get away from that sort of climate. Like with anything in weather there is ALWAYS exceptions and thus years it may snow alot, or be hot in a area that is typically much colder etc. I believe the OP wants something that is RELIABLE not the exception every so many years.
And honestly.. Those suggesting locations in the middle of nowhere who honestly wants to live in those spots especially if there is no jobs or anything else? Yeah i really wanna live in Truckee, CA or some similar place. Not.
And yes i do understand how 2 feet of snow could seem like alot to someone from down south but in all honesty it is not much at all. If it only snows a few days a winter that is not much of a winter/snowy climate. Nor is it a summery place if night time lows are constantly below 50 for all but one month of the summer.
By the sounds of it the OP is looking for RELIABLE 80+ for highs in summer with lows generally upper 50s or warmer for lows and winters with alot of days with snow falling and heavy snows. Sorry but any place that averages less then 30 in a season is not much of a snowy climate.
This website i believe has a list of the snowiest city's in the country. Start from there and then check out the summer climates in each place which you can do via the national Weather service. NOAA's National Weather Service
From ther click on the area of interest and then look at the climo page of that city's national weather service office.
I'm not stupid, I know of these lists...maybe before you decide to take somebody's inventory you should consider that maybe you're wrong.
You clearly have no idea what I said and decided to take it personally..got news for you, you're terrible at interpreting people's posts. I am well aware that St. Louis is not the most desirable place for winters, and that compared to many cities, its winters don't stack up, but for many people, it's the bare minimum of a real winter. And in terms of getting both winter and summer in their fullest, St. Louis is one of the cities that comes closest to doing that.
I'm on the other extreme? Are you kidding me? LOL!!! All I was saying is that in terms of a city that gets both hot summers and cold winters, St. Louis comes the closest to matching both. Who are these experts in weather you deal with, btw? I'd like to know their names. It does more than snow a few a days a winter...snow is pretty common here...sticking is what is less common, although it does happen.
And as far as St. Louis not getting more of a winter than Minneapolis does a summer, that's a joke if I ever heard one. Our winters are enough to be considered moderate. Minneapolis' summers are barely enough to be called anything more than late spring here. Omaha has less than 30 days where it snows too, yet I don't hear you saying their winters aren't real.
Last edited by stlouisan; 05-12-2012 at 12:13 AM..
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,097,146 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryBTL
And you are on the other extreme. Unlike many of the so called experts i deal in the weather. St. Louis, MO is not much of a winter climate period. No more wintry there then it is summery in Minneapolis. Try some place between. This area here has 4 FULL seasons but i did not name it because the OP said lots of snow and the only place where that is possible ( with 4 FULL seasons ) is just a little west of here closer to the Lake Michigan Shore. Average snowfall here is 61 but goes up a inch or so every mile you go further to the west towards the lake and goes down by about that much towards the eastern part of this state. Worcester, MA offers alot of what the OP is looking for as well. Problem for Boston itself and or any city right on the coast in the NE is the marine influence which is a killer in spring and early summer. I believe the OP is trying to get away from that sort of climate. Like with anything in weather there is ALWAYS exceptions and thus years it may snow alot, or be hot in a area that is typically much colder etc. I believe the OP wants something that is RELIABLE not the exception every so many years.
And honestly.. Those suggesting locations in the middle of nowhere who honestly wants to live in those spots especially if there is no jobs or anything else? Yeah i really wanna live in Truckee, CA or some similar place. Not.
And yes i do understand how 2 feet of snow could seem like alot to someone from down south but in all honesty it is not much at all. If it only snows a few days a winter that is not much of a winter/snowy climate. Nor is it a summery place if night time lows are constantly below 50 for all but one month of the summer.
By the sounds of it the OP is looking for RELIABLE 80+ for highs in summer with lows generally upper 50s or warmer for lows and winters with alot of days with snow falling and heavy snows. Sorry but any place that averages less then 30 in a season is not much of a snowy climate.
This website i believe has a list of the snowiest city's in the country. Start from there and then check out the summer climates in each place which you can do via the national Weather service. NOAA's National Weather Service
From ther click on the area of interest and then look at the climo page of that city's national weather service office.
St. Louis DOES have 4 full seasons! Winter here lasts from late November to mid-March. I know compared to where you live, our winters aren't much, but on average our winters are enough to be real. Since you're from Michigan, you probably have no concept of a summer. Battle Creek comes even less close to getting 4 full seasons than St. Louis does. Your summers don't qualify as real...they aren't hot, and to many places with real summers, are considered late spring. St. Louis' winters are far worse than any part of late fall in the Upper Midwest, so don't try and push that logic. I don't know whether you've lived here or not, but trust me, I've lived here almost 30 years, and I've experienced winter in both cleveland and Upstate New York. It is much more severe than where I'm from, but nothing I can't get used to. It hits 0 and 100 here several times a year. I think you're referring to areas further south. As far as less than 30 days, since when are you the judge of that? I'm not even sure that Chicago has 30 days where it snows in a winter. You're almost describing Canada.
Most of Missouri, Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Iowa, and Nebraska are going to give you the closest match to places with 4 seasons. If you believe you're qualified to judge the degree of climates, then I'll try my hand as an accountant at trying to operate on somebody.
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