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Actually, the reason for the downsizing of big cars in the late-'70s was not because of low demand. It was because the manufacturers had to comply with the fuel mileage standards. I believe it was 18 mpg in 1979. An auto manufacturer's cars had to average 18 mpg back then (the average of all their cars, combined) and they couldn't do both... build the popular full-sized, 18-19 foot long cars and attain 18 mpg. SUVs were exempt, so those began selling well. I think we were better off before... I'd rather see long, low full-sized cars than boxy and bulky SUVs out on the streets.
Very true. And very fortunate for those who like classic instead of plastic.
Why do you pro-small car people always use argumentum ad populum? Why, when confronted with a debate over which car is better, you say "they were unpopular"? Popularity is irrelevant to the discussion Fleet is trying to have. And it's not as if full-size cars are universally reviled, anyway - the full-size car market is smaller than it was in the 1970's, but there's plenty enough people interested in that market segment to make such a car profitable, especially considering that a modern full-size car would have no direct competition. You might point to the Town Car's sales as evidence of decline when it was available, but if the Navigator was the only full-size SUV available I might make the same arguments about full-size SUVs. Fortunately, we have the counterexample of the Cadillac Escalade, which is certainly selling well enough.
As for the downsizing, even the downsized cars would be monstrous by today's shoebox-size standards, and it's not as if downsizing worked as a sales strategy anyway. The people who were lured away to Japanese small cars were not saying "oh, I would love to purchase a full-size car, but I can't; if only the same model was a foot shorter and a few inches narrower" . Of course now the situation is very different. The Japanese don't have a chokehold over the small car market, and we're not in gas crisis mode, both being positive for drivers everywhere.
I don't say popularity makes smaller cars better. I say that popularity explains why the automakers don't make the "big" cars any more. It isn't profitable for the big three, especially to make a car that so few buyers want.
Make no mistake though - there are not many people who want 18-20 ft. long cars. Buyers are still buying big vehicles - but many of them are trucks and large SUVs.
It is not economic. There are thousands and thousands, maybe millions of people with the money to buy expensive cars.
The CAFE standards are not a simple average. They are a sales weighted average. A company can still sell an 16 MPG car if they want to. They just can't sell a lot of them.
Thousands or millions of people is plenty enough to sustain a market segment - just look at sports cars or even full-size SUVs. Neither of them sell like hotcakes, but for some reason it's full-size cars that get picked on with regards to popularity . The fact is that the last time full-size cars were up-to-date and modern vehicles, they were quite profitable, even in the face of competition from the likes of Lincoln Navigator; but Ford let the Panther cars rot on the vine, and if you do that to any car (big or small) it eventually dies, and that's what happened. Unfortunately since they were the only full-sizers still available, some have translated the failings of one automaker's models into the entire market segment. The full-size SUV segment is acknowledged to be popular and profitable, but the Navigator has been rotting on the vine like the Town Car (though not as much so), and if that was the only model available in that market segment the full-size SUV market would suffer the same fate as the full-size car market.
I would support getting rid of CAFE standards as a matter of principle, but it's not that hard to make a full-size car, even an affordable one, that gets acceptable gas mileage. One configuration of a Ram truck - a truck - gets 25 mpg on the highway. The Town Car already got 24 mpg on the highway even with its antiquated technology (such as a four-speed transmission), so surely a modern full-size car could do significantly better. One trim of the Audi A8L gets 18 city/28 highway, and its turbo V6 has much more power than the Town Car's V8 (210 hp vs. 333 hp). So, I don't see any reason why a modern Town Car or other full-size car can't approach 30 mpg on the highway.
As for selling 16 mpg cars, the last time the Town Car got 16 mpg combined was in 1984 - the 2011 models got 19 mpg combined. As an aside, 3 mpg is a pretty good improvement considering it was the same platform with mostly the same technology.
Thousands or millions of people is plenty enough to sustain a market segment - just look at sports cars or even full-size SUVs. Neither of them sell like hotcakes, but for some reason it's full-size cars that get picked on with regards to popularity . The fact is that the last time full-size cars were up-to-date and modern vehicles, they were quite profitable, even in the face of competition from the likes of Lincoln Navigator; but Ford let the Panther cars rot on the vine, and if you do that to any car (big or small) it eventually dies, and that's what happened. Unfortunately since they were the only full-sizers still available, some have translated the failings of one automaker's models into the entire market segment. The full-size SUV segment is acknowledged to be popular and profitable, but the Navigator has been rotting on the vine like the Town Car (though not as much so), and if that was the only model available in that market segment the full-size SUV market would suffer the same fate as the full-size car market.
I would support getting rid of CAFE standards as a matter of principle, but it's not that hard to make a full-size car, even an affordable one, that gets acceptable gas mileage. One configuration of a Ram truck - a truck - gets 25 mpg on the highway. The Town Car already got 24 mpg on the highway even with its antiquated technology (such as a four-speed transmission), so surely a modern full-size car could do significantly better. One trim of the Audi A8L gets 18 city/28 highway, and its turbo V6 has much more power than the Town Car's V8 (210 hp vs. 333 hp). So, I don't see any reason why a modern Town Car or other full-size car can't approach 30 mpg on the highway.
As for selling 16 mpg cars, the last time the Town Car got 16 mpg combined was in 1984 - the 2011 models got 19 mpg combined. As an aside, 3 mpg is a pretty good improvement considering it was the same platform with mostly the same technology.
I think you're heart in the right place, but I always grin and shake my head when reading the sort of commentary that is highlighted.
In a big-picture sense, the traditional full-size cars like the panther series maintaining their proven fundamental design superiority to today's econo-blobs kept them from deterioration to the same. It kept them in a superior class by themselves. If it ain't broke, you don't "fix" it.
A '68 GTO or a '77 Cutlass Salon with their 3-speed automatics were far superior to "modern" cars and immeasurably more desirable to drive.
In a big-picture sense, the traditional full-size cars like the panther series maintaining their proven fundamental design superiority to today's econo-blobs kept them from deterioration to the same. It kept them in a superior class by themselves. If it ain't broke, you don't "fix" it.
If by "superior" you mean irrelevant, then I guess so
The Lincoln Continental was one of the world's finest luxury cars...in the 1960's. Now it's just a tool to take people to and from the airport.
Not only did they make cars more-expensive, they destroyed the American auto industry in its prime.
The American auto industry cannot blame ANYONE but themselves for any problems they have experienced. When emissions standards came into existence, they spend years whining and complaining instead of engineering.
When gas rationing happened in the late 1970s, the American brands had nothing but hideous cars like the Chevette to sell.
When their labor costs were too high, the UAW wouldn't back down and concede. Management agreed to these contracts.
And the Big 3 were protected by Michigan and Congress for far too long.
Thousands or millions of people is plenty enough to sustain a market segment - just look at sports cars or even full-size SUVs. Neither of them sell like hotcakes, but for some reason it's full-size cars that get picked on with regards to popularity . The fact is that the last time full-size cars were up-to-date and modern vehicles, they were quite profitable, even in the face of competition from the likes of Lincoln Navigator; but Ford let the Panther cars rot on the vine, and if you do that to any car (big or small) it eventually dies, and that's what happened. Unfortunately since they were the only full-sizers still available, some have translated the failings of one automaker's models into the entire market segment. The full-size SUV segment is acknowledged to be popular and profitable, but the Navigator has been rotting on the vine like the Town Car (though not as much so), and if that was the only model available in that market segment the full-size SUV market would suffer the same fate as the full-size car market.
I would support getting rid of CAFE standards as a matter of principle, but it's not that hard to make a full-size car, even an affordable one, that gets acceptable gas mileage. One configuration of a Ram truck - a truck - gets 25 mpg on the highway. The Town Car already got 24 mpg on the highway even with its antiquated technology (such as a four-speed transmission), so surely a modern full-size car could do significantly better. One trim of the Audi A8L gets 18 city/28 highway, and its turbo V6 has much more power than the Town Car's V8 (210 hp vs. 333 hp). So, I don't see any reason why a modern Town Car or other full-size car can't approach 30 mpg on the highway.
As for selling 16 mpg cars, the last time the Town Car got 16 mpg combined was in 1984 - the 2011 models got 19 mpg combined. As an aside, 3 mpg is a pretty good improvement considering it was the same platform with mostly the same technology.
I agree that Ford let the Panther based cars rot on the vine. But for decades before that - the brands had become old folks cars. Car makers like young buyers because they have something to sell them later. But a 65 year old that buys a Grand Marquis may only buy one more car in their life.
Highly successful people abandoned America's top brands (Lincoln and Cadillac) for imports like MB, BMW, and Lexus. Amazingly enough, lots of these buyers liked cars with better handling and firmer seats.
Almost no person today with "new money" (lets say technology) would choose a Lincoln. They might choose a Cadillac. But more likely it would be German or Japanese.
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. Of course now the situation is very different. The Japanese don't have a chokehold over the small car market, and we're not in gas crisis mode, both being positive for drivers everywhere.
