[THX 1138]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Engineering/Science is also pretty generic, don't you think? I do agree that the "high tech" jobs thing is not presently producing any sea changes for the Florida economy, but you have to start somewhere. The strong industries in Florida remain finance, insurance, legal and medical. This is not a place where one will work their way up the corporate ladder from mailroom to CEO. But honestly, does anyone do that anymore?


Also, Metro-by-metro view is also more relevant to most people. "Average state" for someone looking to move to Sopchoppy vs. Ft. Lauderdale will not allow them to gauge their prospects.


Take a look at the links, not the graphs - which are limited in number on the BLS site. The links provide detailed, hard data on any number of occupations.

The point is that there is no hard line "salaries are higher in X state vs. Y state".... MAYBE you can say that about all the NE states vs. the sunbelt states... maybe also California vs. everyone else out west ...for which it really is a COL thing. 100k in FL is like $130k in NY. But in most cases, you will do better in Florida for some occupations, and worse in Florida for some occupations. That's how things work.

Anecdotes go every which way: I have a friend who moved from the NE where he was in a science (geology) based occupation, and while it took him a long time to find something in his field, he now makes comparable salary + no income tax. He also now owns a two br house instead of a 2 br condo for the same price. Oh, and he manages to work 4 days a week.

I also have a friend who is a lawyer (not sure what he was making in NY), with a wife who was a teacher who was making a lot more in NY. She complains about salaries, but in NY they had a small condo to rent outside of the city, while in Florida they have a new construction, 4br house in a gated community.


Finally, a friend of mine who works for a national company was offered $10,000.00/year more than he was making in Florida to move to the Bay area for the same position, but in a higher volume environment. Factoring in what he could get for his money in terms of rent or to buy, as well as local and state taxes in CA, he would end up the same or maybe even a bit worse, and stayed where he is.

It seems that no matter what, there is a lot of emphasis placed on "High Tech" in the country in terms of STEM related careers, though I agree with you on the strong sectors here...that's what I work in not STEM and I cannot even locate my title in the BLS data, with some adjustment i can pick one but I really can't gauge my salary to any of them....while the term "Engineering/Science" is generic, most if not all High Tech jobs require an education or some type of technical training in one or the other.

The only real way to gauge your prospects is to look at the job boards, BLS data does not tell you the level of opportunity that exists and one place vs another. Just because there are thousand people in County X making X amount of dollars....does not automatically guarantee you a job there or that you will even get that same salary now or down the road...

Since the PB Post focused so much on Scripps and Max Planck here years ago, and in 2004 anyone who subscribed to the PB Post probably read much on Mapping the Boom as they did to hearing about Scripps and Biotech, it was like the plague literally...I got so sick of reading about it. Now we hear little or nothing about it. A lot of what was said was what it would do for the County on a whole, influx of high paying jobs, increase in STEM related careers, good for the area good for college graduates and the universities here.

Now nearly 10 years later, I have not seen too many reaping much benefit from it...I have interns working under me that have friends or family who have STEM related degrees and are having a rough time finding a good paying job here, those that do are working for less and still live with their parents. A few of my interns came on full-time, they are mid to late 20's, still living at home and always mention salaries during reviews...yet they are probably making more than their friends and family...but I am on a budget and wish I could pay them more but my Boss is controlled by someone above him and the BOD and that's the way it works....I tell many that I can get them interviews up North or out West, have a lot of business contacts but many say they do not want to move because all their family is here.

In reality they should be happy because, they are working in fields that are better off here than others and they just need to give it time and gain experience, the problem I am finding is new graduates expect instant success, 2-3 years after graduation, while senior level people are still waiting for something to happen to them....just does not work that way very often...

People who leave here for jobs elsewhere do it for the big picture, not always the money...my friend who moved to the SF Bay Area did it for all the opportunity and competitive wages that exist.....if things do not work out at Company A, Company B is right down the street and he won't have to pick up and relocate his family and etc to find a job..here lose your job, odds are you will be forced to move in some occupations or take a considerable salary hit to stay if you can even find a job.

The amount of start-ups also creates a means to get in at the ground floor, when the company might only have 5 employees, stock options and grown potential is night and day compared to here where you often have the old guard, good'ole boy, cronyism and tunnel vision mentality standing in your way. You will not get ahead based on merit but who you know and how much you brown nose often.

As sad as that is true, I can speak from experience that this is alive and well in my sector here and I see it in others on a weekly basis.

My friend said another thing, in the SF Bay Area employers do not frown upon people who have a lot of jumping around in their resume, that is it's not uncommon to see people there in STEM who worked for 5 companies in the past 5 years...just the way it is....here and other places it's often a big red flag.

Home prices...well that's very relative now isn't it? I would not say that PB County is affordable as it was back in the 1990's when I moved here, last time it was affordable was around 2000 and based on average salaries here that leaves a lot to be desired...

[vaughanwilliams]

Originally Posted by THX 1138

The problem with BLS data is it's too generic often to be accurate, many job titles do not even fit into the categories they develop leaving many wondering if they were even counted.

By looking at the map you posted, there sure seems to be a lot more dark blue areas in the northeast and west than here....but a "Speech Pathologist" is not exactly a common job, I would say it's quite specialized.

Just since "high tech" was mentioned, I looked up my friend's profession who moved to the SF Bay Area from here, quite obvious data on the salaries but I would say based on his experience and feedback it's quite accurate. Also looked up other "Engineering/Science" related positions, on state levels not county the data speaks for itself....

Interesting, but not as relevant to Florida as these occupations;

Dishwashers

Combined Food Preparation and Serving Workers, Including Fast Food
Healthcare Support Occupations

Let's face it-the wages for high tech jobs are lower in Florida because there isn't much high tech.

[TXRyan23]

Comparing occupation by occupation is meaningless.

Compare the average median household income of the states...

List of U.S. states by income - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, the 4th largest state in the U.S. ranks 37th.

Couple that with this...

Cost of Living 1st Quarter 2013

Yes, the 4th largest state is the 23rd most expensive state to live in, despite the low sales taxes and no state income tax.

[THX 1138]

Originally Posted by vaughanwilliams

Interesting, but not as relevant to Florida as these occupations;

Dishwashers

Combined Food Preparation and Serving Workers, Including Fast Food
Healthcare Support Occupations

Let's face it-the wages for high tech jobs are lower in Florida because there isn't much high tech.

I agree with you, wages are not competitive because employers know there is no competition...

Is there any BLS data on Sign Spinners or Sitters? You know those people who either spin signs along the road or sit in chairs holding them up...truly very relevant to South Florida...

[THX 1138]

Originally Posted by TXRyan23

Comparing occupation by occupation is meaningless.

Compare the average median household income of the states...

List of U.S. states by income - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, the 4th largest state in the U.S. ranks 37th.

Couple that with this...

Cost of Living 1st Quarter 2013

Yes, the 4th largest state is the 23rd most expensive state to live in, despite the low sales taxes and no state income tax.

I know quite sad isn't it? In reality, they should split out South Florida as another state, the COL here is way above the rest of the state....

"However, it is fast becoming a place where the expense and the income are not compatible. If we are not careful, we will see more and more of our bright, talented people leave."

South Florida High Cost Of Living Outpaces Incomes, Realtor Says | WLRN

Even back in 2007 this was the case...and I think we may see this come around the bend again...

South Florida cost of living increase highest in U.S. » TCPalm.com

[TXRyan23]

Originally Posted by THX 1138

I know quite sad isn't it? In reality, they should split out South Florida as another state, the COL here is way above the rest of the state....

"However, it is fast becoming a place where the expense and the income are not compatible. If we are not careful, we will see more and more of our bright, talented people leave."

South Florida High Cost Of Living Outpaces Incomes, Realtor Says | WLRN

Even back in 2007 this was the case...and I think we may see this come around the bend again...

South Florida cost of living increase highest in U.S. » TCPalm.com

Exactly, people often claim that Florida's cost of living is "cheap" compared to the North East or the West Coast, but the reality is that the employers in those regions pay much more! Almost all North East and West Coast states have families making above the US Average.

When you combine the pay in Florida vs. the Cost of Living, it's not that much better than trying to live in places like New York or California.

[Swimmom32]

Originally Posted by TXRyan23

Exactly, people often claim that Florida's cost of living is "cheap" compared to the North East or the West Coast, but the reality is that the employers in those regions pay much more! Almost all North East and West Coast states have families making above the US Average.

When you combine the pay in Florida vs. the Cost of Living, it's not that much better than trying to live in places like New York or California.

Our cost of living in South Florida was the same as it was in NJ however believe it or not the Food shopping in NJ was cheaper than South Florida...the Gas was less too in NJ...However Property taxes which we had in NJ but not in Florida although we know what our friends pay was less in South Florida than in NJ

Salaries higher in NJ...but when we moved to S Florida we already knew it was almost as expensive as NJ...

Now living in NC well its much cheaper than South Florida and NJ...lol

[Teckeeee]

So after reading this thread, and my own 2 bad experiences, is it safe to say that Florida employers, in general, don't pay well?

[TXRyan23]

Originally Posted by Swimmom32

Our cost of living in South Florida was the same as it was in NJ however believe it or not the Food shopping in NJ was cheaper than South Florida...the Gas was less too in NJ...However Property taxes which we had in NJ but not in Florida although we know what our friends pay was less in South Florida than in NJ

Salaries higher in NJ...but when we moved to S Florida we already knew it was almost as expensive as NJ...

Now living in NC well its much cheaper than South Florida and NJ...lol

I have family in NC, they live near Winston-Salem and they seem to like it real well. I think NJ is one of the worst in the country for property taxes, right?

I think another thing that most people don't bargain for when they relocate is the insane amounts for homeowners insurance, auto insurance, and vehicle registrations (for the first time)

Ultimately people need to live where ever they're happy. It's just laughable sometimes when people try to make Florida out to be something that it's clearly not.

[TXRyan23]

Originally Posted by Colorado xxxxx

So after reading this thread, and my own 2 bad experiences, is it safe to say that Florida employers, in general, don't pay well?

That's a safe assumption. If you're in a specialized field, you can make some decent money in Florida, however, even then you'll make less than you would in other states.