[Drover]

Originally Posted by jambo101

I would hope the upcoming trial would ultimately clearly define what is meant by stand your ground as at the moment its a vague law that allows people to kill others over trivialities that could probably be resolved with some heated dialogue or a minor scuffle.

No it doesn't.

[Mike1306]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Buzzcut

Exactly and this is key, just imagine that Trayvon was in the wrong and it played out exatly as Zimmerman described, (which I don't believe for a moment). Would not a leg shot or even display of a firearm to an unarmed opponent be sufficient to relieve the threat of imminent danger or fear for one's life?

So many of these SYG cases are head and chest shots when in all likelyhood blowing out someones knee or hip would have sufficed to remove a perceived threat.

If you shoot at someone you aim at center mass. This isn't the movies where you see people shooting something out of someones hand.

And if someone is on top of you banging your head against the ground, as Zman claimed, you think about saving your own life first.

In addition people like you are part of the problem, you have your mind made up already without hearing any evidence except what the media wanted you to see and hear.

[Mike1306]

Originally Posted by justNancy

I'm not a legal expert by a long shot, but I live in Florida, and I'm pretty sure Florida Law allows a judge to give the jury the option to convict on lesser charges like manslaughter. Usually this is done if the evidence and eyewitness testimony do not support the murder charge. I'm not sure, but I think the request for reducing the charges, even after a trial has begun, comes from the prosecution.

I understand what you're saying about a jury taking a murder charge more seriously, but I hope every jury considers the evidence very, very carefully in any case. I've never been arrested but, if I were, I'd care about being convicted falsely of even a minor charge that carries a very light sentence. Just one week in jail would scare the hell out of me. I don't even like using a public toilet in a shopping mall and I can't go to sleep without flossing! Seriously, a conviction can follow you around the rest of your life. I'm already in my 60s, but a younger person might have a difficult time finding a job with a felony conviction.

I believe the reason he was charged with 2nd degree murder is so he cannot flee since bailed can be denied. With a manslaughter charge, he probably would get a bail bond without any problem. This way, Zimmerman can be held in custody until the end of a trial. We can only wait to find out if bail is granted by a judge tomorrow.

They may have charged him with 2nd degree murder for the reason you state, I doubt they will not set a bond but this at least puts him behind bars for a little while to appease some people. It would be hard for the prosecutor to argue he is a flight risk since he turned himself in.

The charge is going to be hard to prove though since they must show malicious intent.

[Sgt. Buzzcut]

Originally Posted by Mike1306

If you shoot at someone you aim at center mass. This isn't the movies where you see people shooting something out of someones hand.

And if someone is on top of you banging your head against the ground, as Zman claimed, you think about saving your own life first.

In addition people like you are part of the problem, you have your mind made up already without hearing any evidence except what the media wanted you to see and hear.

To someone unarmed , even display of a firearm would be enough to get my feet moving in an altercation...you're exactly right it's not going to be like in the movies, I would be setting records for the fastest zig-zag 40 yrd dash. It would be like watching Barry Sanders in his prime with the Lions.

[justNancy]

Originally Posted by Mike1306

They may have charged him with 2nd degree murder for the reason you state, I doubt they will not set a bond but this at least puts him behind bars for a little while to appease some people. It would be hard for the prosecutor to argue he is a flight risk since he turned himself in.

The charge is going to be hard to prove though since they must show malicious intent.

There's a lot more, which is that a judge can release him without charges on "Stand-Your-Ground" without a trial. The prosecution can appeal, but until then he would be free.

I won't be a hypocrite and say I support Zimmerman's account of what happened, since I've posted so much to the contrary. However, I've always said that he deserves a fair trial.

Speculating that Zimmerman is telling the truth isn't any different from speculating that he is lying. Every time I read a comment that "We don't know what really happened" supporting Zimmerman, I think to myself, "That's right, we don't." Somehow people automatically assume that, if there's a doubt and Zimmerman might be telling the truth, he should go free. That's for a jury to decide. I'd hate to think that anyone can confront and kill an unarmed person and walk away just because there isn't a video.

I agree that seeing a gun would be frightening, but we don't know what happened. I just can't see anyone taking off the way Zimmerman described Martin in the 911 call, and then saying "Ya know, I think I'll turn around and attack that mutha." Makes no sense to me.

Edit: and I want to add it made no sense to the lead investigator from day one. Funny how people seem to forget that little tidbit of information.

[doggiebus]

Originally Posted by Mike1306

They may have charged him with 2nd degree murder for the reason you state, I doubt they will not set a bond but this at least puts him behind bars for a little while to appease some people. It would be hard for the prosecutor to argue he is a flight risk since he turned himself in.

The charge is going to be hard to prove though since they must show malicious intent.

Exactly, just because the prosecutor files for 2nd degree murder doesn't mean that is what he will get charged with in the end if anything. I was on a jury once for a 1st degree murder case. The prosecutor charged the guy with 1st degree murder but they only proved the states case against him for manslaughter. So we couldn't find this guy guilty of anymore than that. Even though we knew he probably should of been charged with more (we weren't allowed to see all the evidence), we just had to base are decision on the evidence the prosecutor presented. I would be surprised if there is enough evidence to find zimmerman on 2nd degree murder.

[Cruzincat]

Originally Posted by jambo101

I would hope the upcoming trial would ultimately clearly define what is meant by stand your ground as at the moment its a vague law that allows people to kill others over trivialities that could probably be resolved with some heated dialogue or a minor scuffle.

If any additional evidence does not change Zimmerman's account of how it went down, SYG may not even come into play. It might be self defence outright

[loveautumn]

After listening to all the legal "experts" last night, 1st degree was out of the question, with 2nd degree they are hoping he would be scared enough to plea to a lesser charge (if it is offered, which it probably won't be) and the jury can find on any of the lesser charges as well.

Did anybody catch that TM's mother said that she now thinks it was an accident...what the heck??? And that all she wanted was for him to be arrested and for him to say he was sorry. What??? Does she realize that a person does not get arrested for an accident. This really bothered me when I heard it (I think she was on GMA or one of the morning shows). If she wants public support, she has to understand that the feelings of the family carry alot of weight and have to be very strong against Zimmerman, and it sounds like she is waivering, maybe she is feeling guilty or because of her religious beliefs she is backing off now.

[justNancy]

Originally Posted by loveautumn

Did anybody catch that TM's mother said that she now thinks it was an accident...what the heck??? And that all she wanted was for him to be arrested and for him to say he was sorry. What??? Does she realize that a person does not get arrested for an accident. This really bothered me when I heard it (I think she was on GMA or one of the morning shows). If she wants public support, she has to understand that the feelings of the family carry alot of weight and have to be very strong against Zimmerman, and it sounds like she is waivering, maybe she is feeling guilty or because of her religious beliefs she is backing off now.

This is why people should stay away from TV cameras!! She's been very emotional throughout this entire case. I read that the Mayor of Sanford started to cry when they heard the 911 tapes together, because she began to fall apart. She later explained that she didn't mean "accident" the way others are interpreting it. I was injured, but I often call it an accident, although someone else was at fault. She meant an accident of fate that the 2 of them met that evening. Again, this is why people involved in a trial need to stay out of the news. All you need to do is say one word that can be taken out of context and it suddenly goes viral.

Originally Posted by loveautumn

maybe she is feeling guilty or because of her religious beliefs she is backing off now.

Think of how many times you've used the word in a sentence. "I met him by accident" doesn't mean you fell down. She was talking about being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[loveautumn]

Hey, I feel for the woman and can't imagine what she's going thru... but she was speaking quite clearly for the last 4 weeks and never mentioned the word "accident" anytime I saw her speak, nor did he husband. She should know the whole world is watching. The word 'accident" shouldn't be in her vocabulary and I'm sure her lawyers will tell her that. An accident is a mishap...we're talking murder here. Fate isn't a good word either because that implies that no one had any control over what went on and the outcome, which is hardly the case. I'm certainly not condemning her for an innocent mistake but I hope they realize they are involved in what will be one of the biggest murder trials since Casey Anthony and OJ. I can only picture GZ's friend on TV tonight saying...see even TM's mother thinks it was an accident...you know they will run with it.