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Old 02-19-2017, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Eugene, OR
8 posts, read 41,634 times
Reputation: 157

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I've considered for a while now writing up a bit of a review for those often asking questions about the area. I guess today is going to be that day . I'll try to share some pertinent background info about the area, and then expand on what the city of Eugene itself is like. For those whose attention span may waver, there will be a TL;DR at the bottom!

A bit about me: Nearly 40. Been living in Eugene for just shy of 4 years now. Grew up in the midwest, in the small towns surrounding Omaha, NE. Have lived in every time zone in the continental US--previous cities include Omaha, NE - Atlanta, GA area - Boulder and Denver, CO - and (briefly) Seattle, WA. Have spent extended amounts of time in other larger cities like Cleveland, Chicago, NYC, Kansas City, and a few others.

Oregon, as I see it
The state of Oregon, like many states, is large enough to have different regions whose 'feel' will vary. Much like panhandle Texas is different from eastern Texas, is different from coastal Texas. Here in Oregon, it's probably fair to say there are 3 main regions: The coast/coastal mountains, the Willamette Valley, and eastern Oregon. Eastern Oregon is high desert country, arid, open-skyed and beautiful. Aside from Bend, a good amount of the land is rancher territory. The coast of Oregon is incredible, yet there are no major cities located on its coast, so the pace is much slower and somewhat seasonal--summer brings tourists and travelers, winters not so much. Lastly, the Willamette Valley is where most of Oregon's major cities/population are located. Portland, Salem, Albany, Corvallis, and Eugene, with Eugene being situated at the south end of the valley.

City of Eugene
Metro
Eugene and Springfield are one metro area essentially separated into East and West by the North-South running Interstate 5. Metro pop. of 220K.

Travel

Hour or so to the coast, ~2 hours to Portland/PDX airport, 1.5 to 3 hours away from snow sports, depending on the year and snowfall. Eugene does have a small airport, and the additional cost to fly out of it usually ends up being a break-even when you consider the time and cost of taking the shuttle service to PDX ($60 one-way per adult). If you have more than 2 travelers departing, it's worth driving to Portland and parking at the airport as you will typically save money that way. Same goes for incoming travelers, though it's a 4+ hour round trip and eats up your day to pick up people from PDX! (But visiting family doesn't seem to mind me making that trip for them, ha).

If you've lived in any larger city, you will almost enjoy driving in Eugene or Springfield. You can get from one end to the other easily in under 30 minutes, though folks who grew up here will moan about it 'taking 20 minutes to get to anything on West 11th'. But seriously, traffic here is not so bad! Rush hour starts early, but is pretty well over by 6pm. Eugene had great foresight in planning and has lots of bike lanes for use if you ride a bike (or are interested in giving it a go). Not as good as Boulder, CO, but much better than any of the major cities I've lived in--bike infrastructure is so decent in Eugene that it is even noticed and commented on by visitors from other bike-friendly cities like Asheville, NC. Be warned though, there can be a bit of animosity between drivers and cyclists--generally speaking, drivers are accepting of people traveling by bike. However, frustrations arise when people don't understand the laws regarding bike travel/street usage. This is a problem on BOTH SIDES, due to impatient drivers and clueless cyclists (particularly the no-sh*ts-given homeless population). I know there is no license for riding a bike, but do yourself a favor and educate yourself on the rules of the road and all will be good. --I commuted by bike exclusively for the first 2+ years we lived here and it was great. It was a 15 minute drive, or a 18 minute bike ride...

Eugene has a river running through it, and roads/bridges are arranged with regard to that. However, when first driving in this area you may find yourself wondering 'Was the person who designed this completely stoned when they did so?' See: Delta Highway, and to a lesser extent the *Beltline. Not a big deal, but makes you wonder at times all the same
*Note: Beltline traffic is awful from 3:30 to 6pm, exceptionally so for a metro of this size.

Weather
"It rains all the time". True, mostly. Of course this would not apply if you are in the entire eastern half of the state! Here in the valley, the rain can show up as early as the end of September, and last until the middle of June some years, but is typically heaviest from mid October to mid May (yes, 7+ months of precipitation). Being in the middle of my fourth winter now, I will offer this: it takes a while, but it will begin to wear on you. You're from sunny southern California? Eh, I'd look elsewhere. Literally every single person I know who has come here by way of southern locales like Arizona, Southern California, etc has a reeeally tough time with winters here. Don't quote me on this, but I believe 95% of the town is probably supplementing with Vitamin D right now
Growing up in the midwest, winters there are awful. Windy and frigid, winter on the plains will humble a person. I arrived in Eugene by way of Buford, GA, a suburb on the north side of Atlanta, where snow is rare, but temps certainly dipped during the wintertime. So I was pleasantly surprised by the mild winter temps in Eugene! First winter here I don't remember wearing anything more than a hooded sweatshirt the entire duration of winter. Rain? Who cared! It was better than blustery, cold winds and air dryness that sucked the moisture from your skin and left you feeling like a crocodile. Four years in, and my feelings are changing--by my standards, yes, the winters here are still pretty mild. We typically see a cold snap in December where daily highs struggle to break into the 40s. This year that streak seemed a bit more prolonged, with the trade-off being a bit less rain, but still not so bad. Now, being in the middle of February, the threats of any truly cold days have begun to wane, but.... this rain. Temps will continue to climb, but we still have months of rain ahead, and it tends to make life soggy.
Springtime is long and green, Autumn can last a while, and Summer is typically dry and warm. Since I've been here we've had one very dry, roasty summer, with prolonged daytime temps in the high 90s. If you are heat tolerant you may be able to get by without A/C, but you will need some good fans. Not all homes here have A/C, so it's worth specifically asking when looking at rental properties. Summertime here is pretty great though, even when the heat hits, as there is very little humidity. In 4 years I may have asked myself 3 or 4 times "Is it a bit muggy today?", half in jest, as I have long since forgotten (and not missed) those insanely humid summer days of GA or, even worse, eastern Nebraska. As warm as the summer days may get, the evenings cool off substantially, so much so that you typically will take a jacket with you if you are heading out after 9pm or so. If you look forward to those warm summer nights, you may find yourself disappointed for all but a couple weeks of the summer; even summer mornings can be chilly! I do like it though, as it reminds me of a cool morning in the mountains or desert, before the sun climbs in the sky and sends the temps upward.

Schools
Eugene/Springfield schools are pretty darn good for public education. Yes, people still have their gripes, but anyone with major complaints about the quality of education a child can receive here needs to spend some time in a bad school in any major city as a frame of reference. If a child wants to learn, they are going to get a pretty good shot at a good primary education in Eugene. *Disclaimer: I have no children myself, but have listened to what friends and coworkers with children have had to say.

Jobs and Careers
Most folks will warn you that it may be difficult to find a job here. That is true and false, let's discuss why. A job? you can find entry level work here if you're not overly picky. A plus is that as of July 1st, 2017 the minimum wage is set to increase to 10.25/hr. That may sound ok to you, but do be warned that the cost of housing here is skyrocketing. (I will expand later). In my situation, the person I was dating at the time took a job transfer to Eugene, so we had one income we could count on when we arrived. I found entry-level work in my field within 6 weeks, and consider myself fortunate having done so. I've since spoken with many, many people for whom it took 3, 6, 12+ months to find work in their career field. Just last week I was talking to a guy from the east coast who moved here 10 years ago when his wife took a job here. Said it took him a year and a half to find work in his field! So that would be my word of warning to anyone with interest in the area--apply ahead of time. Most jobs 30k/yr and up can be hard to come by unless you know someone or can apply ahead of time.

Housing and Neighborhoods
Ooowee! Just go to the bank, get your money--all of it--and then you can go looking for a place to live . By any measure, the price of housing here is going up, up, up. Granted, housing here is cheaper than Portland (thankfully) but cost of living is on par with the likes of Atlanta. Think about that. Comparing similar homes in similar neighborhoods...and Eugene is 1/20th the size of Atlanta! When we moved here it was sight unseen, but a 2 bd/1 bath house with a small fenced yard ran us $1300/mo. Central heat, no A/C. Granted, location was great and the home was very nice, but you can get so much more for your money in other markets. If you are headed here from other major cities, the housing cost won't be such a shock for you. From other parts of the country, just be aware that you will be paying a premium to live in Eugene. You typically get a bit better bang for the buck in Springfield, or if you don't mind a little longer commute, towns around Eugene may be an option for you as well.

With regard to neighborhoods, I'm sure you can find many people sharing opinions on where to live right here on these forums. Granted, I have lived in some sketchy areas of larger cities and consider myself pretty 'street-wise' or aware of my surroundings, but I will say this: there's not a street or block that I would hesitate to walk down at any time of day in this entire city. The sad reality is that it is not the case in most large cities. So to Eugene's credit thankfully we can say that it's a pretty 'safe' place to reside--the numbers on violent crime will back that up (though we'll talk about property crime here shortly). As to what neighborhood you want to live in, feel free to ask. Myself or the folks who may comment on this post will be happy to point to the area that best suits what you're looking for!

Local politics and Atmosphere
The atmosphere in Eugene is pretty unique, and save for a few spots that could use some (serious) work, the city itself is pretty darned cool. The majority of residents are very open-minded, kind, peaceful and intelligent folks. Sure, we all fall on different parts of the spectrum, but it seems to be, for the most part, a spectrum that we can all agree upon wanting to be a part of. It seems to me that a great example of the meshing of Eugene's inhabitants is a stroll through the Saturday Market! There are lots of other opportunities to get out and have fun in the community, as long as you get out there and do it. I realized many years ago that it's not about where you live, but what you make of it. If you don't look up and take advantage of the opportunities that come with where you live, you could be living in a paradise and still be absolutely miserable
There are residents here that have money, but you might be hard pressed to pick some of them out of a crowd! The wealth here is pretty 'unassuming' for the most part, and that makes for a pretty cool vibe--to borrow a quote from Fight Club, "...you are not the contents of your wallet, you are not your f*cking khakis". That much I can say I truly do appreciate about the feel of the city.
On the flip-side of that coin, whereas the upper half willingly trends down toward the middle, the bottom half (bottom quarter?) doesn't do the same in trending upward toward the middle for a meeting. It's as if the bar has been set pretty low in terms of certain standards, and people still can't be bothered to make an effort. Admittedly this is more of a "feel" that I get, and I'm having a problem coming up with any one specific example to illustrate this. "Vibrant" or "bustling" are not terms I'd use for Eugene. "Sleepy" and "potheaded" would be more fitting; this place goes to bed at 9pm by most accounts. Maybe it's the small size? Maybe it's all that legal marijuana keeping people in watching a movie on a Friday night?? Still, a bit disappointing considering that Eugene is home to the University of Oregon. *Note: I say everything up to this point more in terms of an observation and not necessarily that it's a bad thing--some people are looking for a chill little town that isn't in any sort of rush to grow up, and that's absolutely fine! Worth mentioning, while Springfield has it's own set of issues, the local government there seems much more willing to embrace progressive thinking and open to making improvements to the city with the future in mind. (If you want an example, ask me about the trail system in Eugene vs Springfield )

The mindset here, while being decidedly liberal, is anything but progressive. The University of Oregon gets to call most of the shots here in Eugene, but outside of that, not too much could be construed as moving 'forward'. It's my opinion that many of those in leadership roles are looking for a magic bus to take them back to the 60s or 70s. You could point to various policies in place as evidence, but it is perhaps most strongly illustrated by the homeless situation here in Eugene. It's absolutely at epidemic proportions, and apparently it is viewed by local government as a result of 'not enough' shelter/programs, as opposed to being a city which enables or subsidizes such behavior (I lean toward the latter being the case). --If I sound like I am frustrated, it's because I am. Eugene is a good town. The problem is that it could be a great town, if not for the lax policies regarding the homeless population here. Literally everywhere you look you are reminded of what enabling the homeless lifestyle gets you in return. The first place we lived when we moved to town we had the following happen: wooden bench swing stolen off our front porch, Halloween pumpkins taken from porch, car broken into while sitting in the driveway, and a few random people knocking on our door asking if they could rake our lawn for $20 (while trying to look inside the house over our shoulder). The first time we heard someone going through our recycling looking for bottles it startled us, but from then on we pretty much expected someone to make the rounds once a week. Talked to the 'regular' several times, even brought him out bottles when he'd stop by... this was off 8th and Jackson, an area with high foot traffic, so we just kind of thought it came with the territory. We have friends a few blocks down that had someone trying to break in through their window from the alley way. Another couple who had their cars broken into in their driveway in the neighborhood as well. My fellow Eugeneans might say "But RickestRick, that area is known for foot traffic and high property crime..what did you expect?" to which I'd say, ok, sure, that's fair, but how about people getting their bikes stolen right out of their garage in the South Hills? People getting high dollar bikes stolen off the back of their car, while chained and padlocked, in broad daylight on 13th St.? Friends getting bikes stolen from 2nd floor apartment balconies?? If you are noticing a theme here, yes, thieves like to target bikes. Or, you could come to my work and see the 'camp' set up in the bushes where we routinely see people doing drugs and leaving all manner of trash--including human waste--on the ground there. Come inside and see the buildings shared-use bathrooms and the needles on the ground in the hallway, people doing meth with the door open, the folks throwing the dumpster trash all over the parking lot... If that's not enough, take a stroll down Broadway dodging the various human beings sprawled on the sidewalks. 10th and Olive? The hangout of hangouts! Plan to stay for a while Again, Eugene has a homeless population you might expect to see scattered over a city 10 times its size, yet here it's all nice and concentrated for your enjoyment. Oh! Don't forget to stop and read a book during your lunch break in the Park Blocks...you're sure to have quite the 'experience'.

And before you write me off as having no empathy, do note that I was homeless at 2 different periods in my life. There are essentially 3 types of homeless individual: The person who is homeless but is making use of all the programs or assistance a community has to offer, and working toward getting back on their feet; A person who has mental issues preventing them from holding a job and would do well to be in a group home with access to care and help; A person who is a drug addict or chooses to remain homeless despite possessing the ability to not be. The people you see standing on street corners in Eugene and clogging up the sidewalks are the latter group. Eugene has a great assortment of programs for those who want to make the effort--the people you see camping in Kesey Square/under every overpass bridge/along the railroad tracks/along the bike paths are not making any attempt to integrate back into society. They are there for the handouts--this comes from a guy who lived it.

It's this last issue--the rampant homelessness and all of it's effects on the city of Eugene--that will see me moving out of the city next summer when we sell our house. When it comes down to it, there are other places to live that share most of what Eugene has to offer with a fraction of the homeless issues. Interested in the Willamette Valley? Try Salem or Corvallis. If you can afford it, you'll be wowed by the beauty of Ashland. Portland is even worth a look, though you run into the pros and cons of a city that size, including a large amount of homelessness (Undoubtedly it's a PNW thing. See also: Seattle).

Sorry if I got a bit grumpy toward the end here folks, but rampant homelessness really is something that has such a large impact on the people in a community. I'm all for giving hand ups, and providing the avenues for those who want to turn their lives around. However, my patience runs thin for those too lazy to help themselves, who then spill over in a manner that affects the ability of others in the community to peacefully enjoy their lives. The size and scope of the homeless problem here would be an epidemic in cities 5 times as large; as it sits now, it's just a shame that the city of Eugene cares nothing of fixing the issue, only further enabling.

The 'Too Long; Didn't Read'
In summary, the weather will leave you a bit waterlogged for the majority of the year but summers are pretty great. You'll want to do due diligence in tracking down work prior to arriving, particularly if you have a degree in a specific field, as those positions are highly competitive. If you are coming from most any larger city you will breathe a sigh of relief when you deal with traffic in Eugene, and have the opportunity to get most places via bicycle safely. Violent crime is very minimal, but property crime is through the roof. Having a major university in town combined with a high transient population ends up being a recipe for lots of theft and burglaries. The rampant homelessness ruins what would otherwise be a great town, and has this guy looking for greener pastures when next the opportunity presents itself. If already coming to Eugene for work, consider living in Springfield, Thurston, Creswell, or Coburg for less crime against you or your property. If simply considering the area for relocation, try other cities in the valley like Corvallis or Salem. More southerly cities like Ashland or Roseburg are smaller, but there is less rain and less property crime.
I've tried to give you some background about myself so that you can see what experiences I am using as a frame of reference. Of course where you come from and what you are used to will play into your perceptions--I hope I've done well to explain things, but if you have any more questions, feel free to ask! Myself or others will be more than happy to chime in--it's one of the great things about people here, they are friendly!
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Old 02-23-2017, 08:05 PM
 
15 posts, read 36,779 times
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Thank you for that information. Good luck with your move!
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:18 AM
 
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Diddo....my wife and I cashed in our 401k and started a beauty shop in West eugene a few years back. Prices of rent (especially commercial) are through the roof and we pay no matter what.rain snow or shine. You have the methers, then the heroine crew, and always the homeless scaring off the customers. Property managers don't care as long as they get their check. Police hands are tied. They used to roll through if you called but don't do that anymore. Call Dispatch if you see drugs being used or sold and they will ask if you actually see a needle in the persons arm before sending someone, that is if they do. Last time they did not and let a guy doing heroine in his truck drive off, hope he didn't kill anyone on his way outta here.

We are seriously thinking of packing up everything and starting over in Texas. More sun, cheap rent, less crime, less bums. Less taxes.

Born and raised in Oregon but I think it's time to go. Thanks for nothing eugene city council.

P.S. the 72 hour parking policy allows bums and methers to buy old 80 model RV and park on any city street for 72 hours. Check out the streets around any wall mart or behind d any big shopping g complex. Or near any industrial parks. They are everywhere. They come out and bust car windows while you are at target or Walmart. Do t leave anything within site.
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Old 03-13-2017, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
3,831 posts, read 1,782,572 times
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Very fair assessment of Eugene and the surrounding area. The blame needs to be on city council for doing absolutely nothing to deal with the problems you mentioned.

Do you plan on staying in Oregon? I think OR is one of the most beautiful states I have ever been but the liberal policies are not helping it.
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Old 03-13-2017, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Eugene, OR
8 posts, read 41,634 times
Reputation: 157
I think most of the 'liberal policies' in Oregon are fine. Compared to the bigoted fear and hate in the parts of the South I've lived, I'd take Oregon over those places any day of the week. If 'liberal policies' don't jive well with an individual, there's plenty of flaming red states out there where they might feel more at home?

If a person grew up outside Oregon, you likely always heard Oregon talked about with wide-eyed enthusiasm, like it was some mystical promised land. And sure, even when compared to a perfectly ok state like Iowa, Oregon has a lot of cool things to offer. Still, I in no way meant to bash Oregon as a whole--I think I have found my new home, and am largely happy to be here. I just wanted to offer my insights to try to put things into perspective for those wide-eyed readers of the fairy tale stories that are 'the Great Oregon'. For instance, in the valley it rains. A lot. That's not going to change. I'm also critical of the out of control homlessness that has such a huge impact on the daily life of every resident in Eugene. I like Eugene quite a bit--if I didn't, I wouldn't waste my time being critical of it. I'd simply move along.

However, like Jonnyo has mentioned, when you can't get the police to seriously respond to a call of people doing drugs in your parking lot, you know there are some changes that should be made! The stories of people shooting up in the bathroom at my work are not exaggerated. The sad thing is that after 3 years there, we are so numb to it...it's like, "Oh, don't use that bathroom. There's someone passed out in there again." Calling Cahoots is a joke, unless the person is out of their mind and running around in traffic, you'll get no help there. The stories go on and on, it's such a constant thing that it truly is just 'another day in Eugene'. I think any person potentially moving here should be aware of that.

**Worth noting as an update to my original post, I recently needed to go to a business downtown and parked at the Park Blocks. I was bracing for the usual when I got out of my vehicle--instead, I got out and immediately noticed something was different. I could hear the fountain! It was peaceful! I'm not trying to be dramatic when I say it was like a wave of "WOW" washed over me. All the bums were gone. All the grungy street kids that usually hang out there and hoot, holler, and blast crappy music...all gone. IT WAS SO LEGITIMATELY NICE. It completely changed the atmosphere!
That same week I went into the Safeway on 18th and Pearl, a location I frequent. Not once, but twice in the same week I was able to walk in during the day without being harassed by bums on the sidewalk. You don't realize how much that harassment closes you off to others around you until it's no longer there!! I was walking with my head up. I was looking around at this wonderful city instead of staring at the ground to avoid eye contact.
These were such stark differences to the norm for the past few years that I not only noticed, but shared my experience with friends. One of them mentioned a town hall meeting recently where some decisions may have been made to try to do something about these issues in Eugene? What ever the case, I hope it continues.
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Eugene police issue warning after woman assaulted, robbed on bike path | Local | Eugene, Oregon

The bike paths don't seem very safe. I have seen many shady people on these paths, trash, people camping, its all a mess.

This is what I mean by liberal policies--- which has nothing to do with your comparison to the deep south. City council is in denial over what the "travelers" and homeless are up to in Eugene. Panhandling should be illegal, there should be ordinances not to linger on sidewalks for hours. Those two simple policy changes would help a lot.

You mentioned having a recent better experience, that's good but have you been down Broadway lately? What a joke people laying in groups on the side of the road. Merchants dislike it, so do shoppers and other folks.

Eugene didn't used to be like this, its getting worse and I hope the city does something to help. Not everyone wants to be pushed out of a city due to bad city managers and poor policies.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Eugene, OR
8 posts, read 41,634 times
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Ah, I see better now what you were referring to Wintergirl80--I had read that as you implying the liberal policies were an issue to the entire state.

I absolutely agree with you about the lax panhandling/homeless/loitering policies in place now. Yes, just 3-4 short years ago I remember having lunch in the park blocks on a regular basis, and how lovely the area was on a sunny afternoon. Perhaps they have recently moved everyone out of the park blocks only to have them reassemble on Broadway now? What a mess indeed. It's just a shame... And I can't even imagine owning a business off Broadway and Olive--I stay away from that area at all costs. I wouldn't guess any of it is good for business! I will also second your assessment of the bike path problems--Amazon path heading west is pretty gross. Not any place to be as it approaches dusk.

They recently put a 6 month ban onto dogs in the downtown/Broadway area, which is a rather silly way of skirting the real issues. Will it have any positive impact? I suppose we will see.
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:53 AM
 
1,026 posts, read 1,514,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintergirl80 View Post
Eugene didn't used to be like this, its getting worse and I hope the city does something to help.
I'm from Eugene, but left 20+ years ago, so I guess it's changed a lot, though I haven't been back much, except for recently, when I was staying there for a few months with my mom, but I didn't really get around much, since I don't drive, and she doesn't much either. But I actually liked it, probably because it was just a change from here, and have been thinking about moving back. But since I don't drive, I don't really know much about it now...of course, when you're a kid, you're probably oblivious to a lot, and pretty sheltered. But I don't really remember any issues. It seemed great when I was a kid, and I don't know if that's just because I was a kid, or if it's really changed that much/gotten worse.
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Eugene Oregon
16 posts, read 36,957 times
Reputation: 87
Default Accurate Insights Indeed

Having migrated to Eugene from Southern California 4 years ago, I would say that RickestRick's insights are spot-on. I'm someone who even likes rain, but constant showers and the slate gray monotone sky have gotten very old this winter. Also the ice storm in December, and the subsequent 4 days without power, where the interior of the house got down to the mid-thirties, was a bit...chilling. Give me back the El Nino Winter of 2015, where Eugene was so mild it could have been Pasadena. But we survived it and moved on.

There are a lot of things I like about the South Hills where we live, but prices are getting ridiculous up here. Big, boxy homes that haven't been updated for 50 years are selling for a lot more than they look like they're worth. Strangely, there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in curb appeal around here in general :car ports stuffed with junk, weeds, dead grass, trash bins left out all week, it looks almost depressed. But the deal breaker for me here in Eugene is going to be this homeless situation. If it worsens, and I see no signs of things improving, we will likely try to find something in Salem, Corvallis, or even Ashland if I win the lottery. I think tolerating needles on the street, feces, liter, street harassment, etc. is a mistake. I'd just like to live in a city with a decent downtown again. And that's too bad because there is a lot of potential here. And a lot of natural beauty and open-mindedness. But the drawbacks concern me for the future of the city. I don't get what their vision is. Do they want to get serious and connect homeless people with services, and create a safe and vibrant downtown, or do they simply want to be enablers. Lastly, the urban growth phobia seems ever so slightly hysterical. Overall a nice place, though.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:22 AM
 
86 posts, read 148,862 times
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Thank you for your post. It's very informative and objective. You write very well. It's helpful as we are considering a move to Oregon from Southern California
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