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Sir, (almost) NONE of the OEMs make much money on the entry level cars. Have not in decades. The money is in the stupidly priced stuff, like trucks and SUVS ergo.... As of 2019, no onshore adult OEM is targeting CAR buyers. Only a few offshore makes are keeping models around. There are buyers for the fusion and taurus, but not enough to convince ford to keep bolting them together. there are buyers for the impala and lucerne, but not enough for GM to keep bolting them together. Honda and toyota figured, with no subterfuge, heck we will capture that market with cars we already build, and chip shortages aside - ARE. What are the top 20 vehicles again? I forget.
Read that again and again
IDK what supposed to read again and again but in the top 20 vehicles in the US includes 5 cars - 2 Hondas, 2 Toyotas and the Tesla Model 3 - so there is one onshore OEM targeting CAR buyers. In 2020 they sold 206.5K Model 3s in the US and 440K world wide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireinPA
I chose a model S since everyone is talking about them and they seat 4 and cost about the same, if you have an E-suv you would rather I use, then name it. what similarly priced e-suv will replace my highlander, task for task? I want only *1* vehicle in that side of the garage. Sell me.
Each is putting out a e-truck in a few years. Ford will be first. Ford will corner the market at first. And if they work, then in 10 years time the bulk of the sales will avalanche towards them for all but the most diehard 'I want a diesel' and it will STILL not be a small car. And they aint gonna get cheaper.
I doubt you mean the Model S - that is the large sedan and more comparable to a MB S class in size and price. The Model Y is the eSUV closest to your Highlander. I also don't know why first is so important but the first EV Pickup is the Rivian. From motor trend
Quote:
The 2022 Rivian R1T is the first mass-produced electric truck to hit the U.S. market, but that's hardly the most interesting thing about it. Its electric powertrain notwithstanding, the R1T is unlike any pickup we've ever driven—part truck, part sport sedan, and 100 percent amazing. It's been speculated that pickup buyers are too conservative to embrace electrification, but after our first drive in a pre-production Rivian R1T, both on-road and off-, we think this is the electric truck that will turn them into believers.
People drive sporty cars (Mustangs, Corvettes, Challengers, etc.) for the sound, not necessarily the speed.
I can't see myself buying an electric car. I couldn't drive for three weeks due to COVID. I missed hearing my V8 rev and the transmission shifting. I couldn't wait to get back behind the wheel. I wouldn't be able to handle an electric car.
People drive sporty cars (Mustangs, Corvettes, Challengers, etc.) for the sound, not necessarily the speed.
I can't see myself buying an electric car. I couldn't drive for three weeks due to COVID. I missed hearing my V8 rev and the transmission shifting. I couldn't wait to get back behind the wheel. I wouldn't be able to handle an electric car.
The instant torque will more than make up for the sound - at a stop light I am halfway down the block before the guy in the Mustang revving his engine is 100 ft from the light - it is addictive.
Mazda sells fewer than 10,000 Miatas a year in the US,
Well Mazda may very well sell over 13,000 Miatas this year to Americans who suddenly feel life is short after being indoors for a year.
But all other considerations aside, it's obvious that most of Mazda's business is Crossovers (76% so far this year), and that is the market targeted to be replaced by EVs. Miatas are 3.6% of total Mazda sales in the US
The MX-30 an all-new model for Mazda, it marks the first time the Japanese automaker has experimented with an all-electric powertrain. It's similarly sized to the current CX-30 crossover, but borrows the MX nomenclature of the MX-5 Miata, giving us hope that a performance-oriented variant will eventually join the lineup.
A decade ago, Mazda and Subaru were fierce rivals for the #4 spot of Japanese automakers sales in the US. So far this year, Subaru crossovers are outselling Mazda crossovers by 2 to 1 (even though the number of car sales are virtually identical between Mazda and Subaru).
Subaru is taking a completely opposite approach to EVs than Mazda. As of 4 days ago, Subaru has now moved all their gasoline vehicles to the Subaru Global Platform (SGP), but they decided to sell their upcoming EV using Toyota's platform. Toyota owns a sizeable percentage of Subaru. I think Mazda believes their MX-30 will start them on a path to catching up to Subaru.
US sales first 6 months of 2021-Mazda car sales
25,826 Mazda 3: compact car
12,316 Mazda 6 : mid size sedan
6,600 Mazda MX-5 Miata: sports car
60 Mazda 5 - ended production in 2018
44,802 Mazda car sales
US sales first 6 months of 2021-Subaru car sales
17,165 Subaru Impreza compact car
14,272 Subaru WRX: sports car
12,921 Subaru Legacy: mid size sedan
721 Subaru BRZ: sports car shared with Toyota
45,079 Subaru car sales
US sales first 6 months of 2021- Mazda Crossovers
88,113 Mazda CX-5
28,899 Mazda CX-30
17,575 Mazda CX-9
5,314 Mazda CX-3 - dropped from lineup for 2022
139,901 crossovers
US sales first 6 months of 2021- Subaru Crossovers
95,965 Subaru Forester
87,619 Subaru Outback
64,214 Subaru CrossTrek
28,373 Subaru Ascent
276,171 crossovers
Last edited by PacoMartin; 09-14-2021 at 02:58 AM..
Nissan is considering a return of the Silvia but in an electric form. Here in the USA the last version of the Silvia was called the Nissan 240SX, a rear wheel drive sporty compact car popular with drifters. Sadly it’s more powerful engine options never arrived in dealer show rooms. It was a fairly popular model world wide for its relatively low price and fun handling. One of its main rivals was the Toyota Celica. Currently the electric car is still a low volume seller. But would a sporty compact 4 seater electric car help to usher in more electric buyers? We know electric has the benefit of instant torque. If they get the formula correct it could be a good buy. The suspension should live up to the sporty heritage. The software controls should have at 3 modes. One to extend miles per charge, one for normal driving, and one for a true sport driving. The range should make it a viable daily driver. Normal mode should offer slightly better acceleration than the average compact or midsize sedan in base form. Extended range setting should have acceleration slightly better than the average subcompact vehicle. Price point would also be a delicate factor. Eventual aftermarket would include changes to the software for better acceleration as well as suspension components. A return of a Celica in electric could follow the original evolution leading to a Supra based off the existing Celica. In the case of the Silvia, if successful, could lead to an electric Z or Skyline built upon the established foundation of the Silvia.
I’m not a hardcore all electric fan but I am a fan of innovation and more choices for the consumer. Would love to see something like this tried in at least one nation or continent. A world rally electric could be a test bed for endurance as well as advertising the teshnology.
No even conventional vehicles that are sports cars are not selling well. People don't want sports cars they want SUVs. Tesla's been making sporty electric cars for over a decade.
I think payable generally don't like sports cars cuz they're small they're hard to get into and out of they're uncomfortable to sit in if it was just to play with on the track that would be one thing but that is a very expensive toy.
IDK what supposed to read again and again but in the top 20 vehicles in the US includes 5 cars - 2 Hondas, 2 Toyotas and the Tesla Model 3 - so there is one onshore OEM targeting CAR buyers. In 2020 they sold 206.5K Model 3s in the US and 440K world wide.
:rolleyes
top 25 cars sold in 2020, since we have no idea what the 2021 numbers will be therefore no one would rightly speak to that:
in the top 20, there are exactly 4 cars, all by offshore OEMS. Expand this to top 25 as per article, the number climbs to 5 with the addition of the altima. There are no onshore OEMs (read: the big 3) with any 'car' in the top 20 or 25, as I previously said and was quoted. Ergo, not one word that I wrote is disputed. Write them if you have an issue.
The MX-30 an all-new model for Mazda, it marks the first time the Japanese automaker has experimented with an all-electric powertrain.
I don't know what Mazda is thinking with this car. A crossover with a tiny 32.0-kWh battery pack, a weak 143-hp motor and a mere 100 miles range? It's a brand new model that's outdated the second it hits the sales floor. It might appeal to some Nissan Leaf owners as an upgrade -- people who have lifestyles where range isn't important -- but other than that, I don't see how this car succeeds at all.
I don't know what Mazda is thinking with this car. A crossover with a tiny 32.0-kWh battery pack, a weak 143-hp motor and a mere 100 miles range? It's a brand new model that's outdated the second it hits the sales floor. It might appeal to some Nissan Leaf owners as an upgrade -- people who have lifestyles where range isn't important -- but other than that, I don't see how this car succeeds at all.
The kicker is the price starts at $33K. I think there can be a market for a shorter range commuter vehicle that's really efficient, but if it's someone who prizes efficiency, then a $33K starting price does not gel with that at all. The Nissan Leaf is an older platform and a hatchback instead of a crossover, but also starts about $5K less, has a lot more range at 151 miles, an ever slightly more powerful motor at 148 hp, and is also still eligible for the federal tax credit and still doesn't sell very well. Something like $22K which is where the CX-30 is priced would have arguably been attractive.
The average American drives just under 15,000 miles per year, which works out to around 40 miles per day. The vast majority of those miles are "just up to the store" or "back and forth to work". Tesla has the road trip issue basically solved with their supercharger network, and EVs generally make better "around town" cars. There are fringe cases where they don't make sense, but for most people it's more of a psychological hangup than a real or practical one.
Simply not true.
Most people don't drive 40 miles every day. They drive 20 miles most days, 0 miles some days, and 500 miles a day a few times a year.
It's those 2-5 days a year that big miles get put on a car that make EVs impractical for many people. With a gas car, one can get the job done. With an EV, sure, you are fine on 98-99% of days... but for the others, you will need a rental car or be saddled with the inconvenience of charging on the go.
It's not a fringe case, and that's why like 97% of sales are still not EVs, despite the tax incentive coercion.
Most people don't drive 40 miles every day. They drive 20 miles most days, 0 miles some days, and 500 miles a day a few times a year.
It's those 2-5 days a year that big miles get put on a car that make EVs impractical for many people. With a gas car, one can get the job done. With an EV, sure, you are fine on 98-99% of days... but for the others, you will need a rental car or be saddled with the inconvenience of charging on the go.
It's not a fringe case, and that's why like 97% of sales are still not EVs, despite the tax incentive coercion.
Average commute in the US is apparently 16 miles each way, so more like 32 miles most days, some variance on weekends and days running errands, and either rarely or never 500 miles a day though 500 miles a day aren't an issue for the longer range EVs. Over 600 miles a day is a problem as that's going to be more than one or two charging sessions done during a bio or meal break. That's probably a pretty small segment of the US driving population as is people who routinely tow large trailers long distances and/or people who live in areas where winter can routinely hit -40F and lower.
I think then the difficult part for EV adoption so far has been that they're generally too expensive for what you get compared to ICE competitors in most automotive segments outside of the premium segment, there's currently still limited to no selection in certain automotive segments including the very popular pickup segment, and there's a good half or so of the car-driving population that does not have the option to have charging where they park at home or at work. The first two supposedly will get settled within the next couple of years as battery improvements bring prices down for the range and performance and as more automakers create a greater variety of models for sale, but that last one is going to be tricky. That'll have to come with a combination of a lot more chargers available, much longer average range, and much faster max charging speeds. I think that'll have to wait several more years though.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 09-14-2021 at 01:08 PM..
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