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As far as a "90% tax" goes. That is stupid. Let me guess, you want to "redistribute wealth"?
Bring back the 90% Tax rate....I'm all for it!
Redistribute wealth...I'm all for it!
Most ( but not everyone ) of those who would fall into the 90% Tax bracket obtained their wealth by paying those who did the grunt work in their companies, as little as possible. They would have paid the the rank and file workers even less if there was no minimum wage law. The CEO and the upper echelon white collar thugs get the biggest pieces of the pie leaving the rank and file workers with a pile of crumbs. The thugs can afford the 90% tax rate. Like Bob, I'm inclined to vote for the Robin Hood democrats in this election. We need some Robin Hoods to give us back the money stolen from us by the corporate thugs and their government enablers. Please note that I'm registered as an independent. I have voted for republicans in some elections, democrats in others, and 3rd party candidates in others. I have no party affiliation or loyalty. IMO, the residents of Colorado will fare best under a democratic administration in the next few years ahead. Even though the problems aren't going to go away by voting for Robin Hood, at least we'll be heading in a different direction. The current direction is taking us close and closer to hell. I'd like to see us move in another direction.
Last edited by CosmicWizard; 09-20-2008 at 12:37 PM..
bob's assessment is sad, but somewhat true. The markets were giddy at the end of this week because a huge burden of bad debt was just shifted from irresponsible lenders and borrowers right on to the backs of the American taxpayers. Did you feel that? Unfortunately, a 90% marginal tax rate--even 100%--on wealthy taxpayers will not even make a big dent in the debt the Federal government (meaning us) now bears. When they asked Willy Sutton why he robbed banks, he replied, "Because that's where the money is." Well, the same is true now. There is going to be a massive tax increase coming to retire this debt, and the government is going to go where the money is to get it--the middle class. The take on this by both the Republicans and the Democrats is folly. The Republicans say that we will magically grow our way out of this and tax revenues will correspondingly increase. They can't explain how an essentially bankrupt country (and that is what we are) with diminishing natural, financial, and manufacturing resources is going to do that. The Democrats say they will just increase taxes on corporations and the wealthy to pay our way out of this. They choose to ignore that the all of the money of the "wealthy," as stated above, won't be enough to do it; and they skim over the fact that taxes on corporations are just passed down to shareholders as decreased dividends or on to the company's customers in the form of increased prices.
As to Colorado, bob is sure right about that. We get to share a big bite out the **** sandwich that a whole lot of irresponsible people elsewhere created--not that the funny-money, non-productive, speculative parts of the Colorado economy haven't contributed to the mess--they have.
All of this can do nothing else but lead to a grossly diminished living standard for all Americans. I'm amazed that everyone under the age of about 40 isn't out rioting in the streets. Their future of having a living standard anywhere near that of their parents or grandparents just pretty much got flushed down the toilet for them. The picture is hardly rosier for the 40-65 set, either. Everything they are going to count on for a supposed--and I emphasize "supposed"--retirement, including Social Security, just got a lot more tenuous and risky. It's just really the pits when the chickens finally come home to roost, and they are trillion dollar debt chickens.
Actually as a percentage of State income, tourism is a small slice, something around 10 billion in each of the past couple of years -- which is up since the state restarted advertising for tourism after stopping in 1992.
Professional occupational growth is occuring, in particular in the high tech and government services fields. Agriculture remains strong as does anything related to natural resources.
Regarding this week; if you were surprised you are part of the problem. Outrage after the fact is as useless as pissing into the wind.
You are quoting the income directly attributable to tourism. You need to add in all of the non-productive real estate speculation and assorted crap--then the figure gets a lot bigger--and a lot more susceptible to a massive coming decline when that kind of discretionary spending no longer is tenable. "Professional occupational growth" depends on people being able to have enough income to afford the services those people provide. In other words, that sector relies on the health of the state's underlying basic industries to exist. Not encouraging there, either. Natural resources are strong, yes. Agriculture? It is being hammered by high fuel costs, and those urbanites' unending thirst for ag's water. Get real. You apparently haven't talked to any farmers or ranchers lately. Government services? Well, who pays for those?
You didn't mention all of that cash flow coming in from government and private sources to those retirees sitting all around the state. Just how "robust" do you think their checks are going to be in the future?
And, am I surprised about all of this? Hardly? I've been predicting it on this board for way over a year (and doing my best to personally prepare for it)--and I had a pretty good idea for over a decade that it would come eventually. Outraged? You bet. I didn't behave in a financial manner that makes me deserving of bearing the burden of a bunch of idiots who couldn't behave in a financially responsible manner themselves. They (irresponsible borrowers, lenders, and speculators) should have been thrown under the bus. It would have made a great incentive for the rest of us not to make the same bad decisions going into the future.
[*]Bring back the 90% Tax rate....I'm all for it![*]Redistribute wealth...I'm all for it!
You want communism/socialism?!?!?
Have you ever been to a communist or socialist country?
I have. It's not that great.
Let's see. I can go to medical school, study for years upon years, stay-up late studying and then go into the medical profession and make an hourly wage that is equivalent to the guy who never went to school and is making coffee.
No incentive to work hard.
When I was in communist Russia and communist Poland, the service in each and every store was atrocious. The medical field was filled with butchers, not doctors. Those doctors who were good, you had to pay them under the table in order to get decent medical aid.
I can go on and on.
Communism and Socialism is EVIL, WICKED and AN OPPRESSED STATE to live in.
People like Howard Kunstler who want to see a socialist government in the USA believe that the old & crippled would be a drain on the system and should be eliminated.
Socialism or communism require that everyone puts in their "fair share". If someone is old, weak or handicapped they cannot. So they are a burden and drain and therefore must be dealt with.
That is true socialism and communism. That is what Kunstler wants.
I wouldn't like that but that's not what I am worried about. I'm thinking a return to feudalism with landed nobility and serfs (sharecroppers)working the land. A "Mad Max" senario is not entirely out of the realm of possibilities either with local war lords (gang leaders).
Like you jazz, I resent the irresponsible borrowers, lenders, and speculators. I agree that they should have been thrown under the bus. Now that the fruits of our labors and responsible financial behaviour are being stolen from us in broad daylight, what strategy do you propose going forward?
LBear...regarding redistribution of wealth. It's already happening. Your wealth and my wealth, and the wealth of everyone else in the 90% undercalss is being redistrubuted to the super wealthy to cushion their fall from the results of their greedy behaviour. Where is Robin Hood when we need him?
LBear...regarding life in a socialist country. I had the very good fortune of living in Canada for 5 years, which were among the best years of my life. While Canada is not a hard core socialist country by any means, it is a socialist leaning country, especially compared to the USA. I never realized how good I had it until I stupidly gave up my landed immigrant status and returned to the USA. Doing so was by far the stupidest thing I've done in my life. I'd go back in a heart beat If I could figure out a way to get back my landed immigrant status. I must have been in a state of temporary insanity when I left Canada.
LBear...you mention that socialism is evil, wicked and oppressive. I can honestly say that I experienced absolutely none of that during my time in Canada. I've experienced MUCH more of those qualities living in the USA. As an American teenager in the late 60s, I was faced with the choice ( I'm really stretching the meaning of the word choice ) of enlisting in the Air Force or being drafted to fight a war in Viet Nam.....That is EVIL & WICKED! I spent a tour of duty in the Air Force...that is an OPPRESSIVE lifestyle. At that time, Canada did not demand such evil, wickedness, & oppression from a certain class of its citizens.
Last edited by CosmicWizard; 09-20-2008 at 04:12 PM..
Like you jazz, I resent the irresponsible borrowers, lenders, and speculators. I agree that they should have been thrown under the bus. Now that the fruits of our labors and responsible financial behaviour are being stolen from us in broad daylight, what strategy do you propose going forward?
Well, I'm somewhat "radical" on this. I think, first, that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should have not been bailed out (nor AIG). I also think that the real estate markets, painful as it has/will be, should have been allowed to deflate. As problematic as the financial damage from that would have been to many Americans, it pales compared to what will eventually come from the intervention that has been made to prop it up.
Another thing that should be happening (starting about 20 years ago) is a return to vigorous enforcement of the anti-trust laws in the US. The bi-partisan abandonment of enforcement of anti-trust has allowed far too much power to be concentrated in the hands of large corporations that, not surprisingly, have become way too cozy with big government. I would extend those anti-trust sanctions to foreign corporations who desire to do business in the US. If they are unwilling to follow US anti-trust laws, then they don't need to do business here.
I agree with Kunstler on this point: A lot of our problems right now are directly attributable to the lack of a coherent energy policy in this country, and the fact that we have--directly and indirectly--subsidized a living arrangement that maximizes our use of diminishing resources and maximizes our reliance on foreign countries for those resources. That has to stop.
Finally, we HAVE to restore fiscal discipline to government. That is going to mean raising taxes to retire the massive federal debt AND severely cutting government spending. It is going to take both, and--right now--neither side of the political aisle is talking about doing both. Doing both will absolutely translate into a diminished material standard of living for Americans--for quite a long time. That is the price we are going to have to pay for living well beyond our means for decades now.
Unfortunately, most of the American people (as some of the posts in this very thread attest) wish to hear nothing of this. They believe in a fairy-tale land where all wishes are granted, and there is no end to the resources to make it happen. They believe there is a "free lunch" solution to all of our problems--and they desperately continue to look for it, despite a mountain of evidence that it's not there.
I
Unfortunately, most of the American people (as some of the posts in this very thread attest) wish to hear nothing of this. They believe in a fairy-tale land where all wishes are granted, and there is no end to the resources to make it happen. They believe there is a "free lunch" solution to all of our problems--and they desperately continue to look for it, despite a mountain of evidence that it's not there.
I can imagine these same types of discussion taking place among Romans in the last days of empire.
We also have to discard the labels of republicans and democrats, conservatives and liberals, religionists and heathens, christians and others, and stop demonizing each other. This isn't the fault of liberals or socialists, or commies or crazies. Our polarized political system that pits you against me/ us against them is destroying our country. Greedy, corrupt business practices supported by politicians are not our salvation.
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