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Old 11-18-2012, 05:49 AM
 
1,980 posts, read 1,323,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Free trade lets us pay less for everything we use and get more for everything we produce. Our country and the world as a whole are richer as a result. The idea of import certificates, or tariffs, or bounties, or any other restraint of trade will necessarily produce a lower standard of living for the average citizen.
Marco Polo, wage earning families benefit from cheaper imported goods but every day of every year they’re dependent upon their U.S. wages. Cheaper imported goods do not compensate those families for trade deficit’s detriment to our GDP and median wage.

All of the goods and service products and particularly all of the labor that directly or indirectly supported the production of any final products, contributed to the production of that final product and were acknowledged by their contributions to the producing nations’ gross domestic products, (GDPs).

The economic differences between similar domestic goods that have reached their producers’ shipping docks and imported goods that have reached the entry port docks of the importing nations’ are of similar. Their entire economic differences occur during the products’ productions. The entire benefits due to production, (i.e. the entire commercial activity, labor, materials, and other resources that were directly and indirectly dedicated to production of the products were earned and for the benefit of the producing nation.

Prior to the moment that imported goods have reached the importing nations’ docks, their production and shipment have contributed absolutely nothing to the importing nations’ GDPs.

USA purchasers can only spend the same dollar once unless and until they recover that dollar. Their choice that was favorable to foreign producers and shippers was to denial of that favor to USA enterprises.

Your message defends global trade. The issue is trade deficits. Annual trade deficits are ALWAYS detrimental to their nations’ economies.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:55 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,570,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Marco Polo, wage earning families benefit from cheaper imported goods but every day of every year they’re dependent upon their U.S. wages. Cheaper imported goods do not compensate those families for trade deficit’s detriment to our GDP and median wage.

All of the goods and service products and particularly all of the labor that directly or indirectly supported the production of any final products, contributed to the production of that final product and were acknowledged by their contributions to the producing nations’ gross domestic products, (GDPs).

The economic differences between similar domestic goods that have reached their producers’ shipping docks and imported goods that have reached the entry port docks of the importing nations’ are of similar. Their entire economic differences occur during the products’ productions. The entire benefits due to production, (i.e. the entire commercial activity, labor, materials, and other resources that were directly and indirectly dedicated to production of the products were earned and for the benefit of the producing nation.

Prior to the moment that imported goods have reached the importing nations’ docks, their production and shipment have contributed absolutely nothing to the importing nations’ GDPs.

USA purchasers can only spend the same dollar once unless and until they recover that dollar. Their choice that was favorable to foreign producers and shippers was to denial of that favor to USA enterprises.

Your message defends global trade. The issue is trade deficits. Annual trade deficits are ALWAYS detrimental to their nations’ economies.


Respectfully, Supposn

A++++++++++++++++

But really.

Do you not think the proponents of the Global Plantation already know this?

Are they not just trying to Sell (US Out) For Less?

With a bunch of Econ Mumble to Cover it?
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 87,187,260 times
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The argumentative fallacy is right there in the thread title. An increase in GDP will not necessarily increase the Median Wage. The wages paid to workers is what the workers are willing to work for. The owners receive all the GDP, and then pass it along to the workers according to wage scales which are negotiated by either the individual workers or their bargaining organizations.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:22 PM
 
13,008 posts, read 18,963,428 times
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Apparently such a strategy is not working for Argentina.
Argentina's International Trade Disaster - Businessweek
Would it work here? Who knows.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:22 AM
 
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Default Transferable Import Certificates

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Apparently such a strategy is not working for Argentina.
Argentina's International Trade Disaster - Businessweek
Would it work here? Who knows.
PVandE55, the link you provided lacked description of what Argentine policies, laws or regulations were being criticizing. Argentina apparently is attempting in a manner less governed by explicit laws and regulations to achieve the SOME of what transferable Import Certificates would accomplish in a superior manner.

Argentina’s method is not similar to a transferable Import Certificate policy which is an indirect but effective subsidy of USA exports and should not delay imports beyond the extent they should be now delayed if Federal Homeland Security was effectively performing their duties.

Argentina’s unwritten actions are governed only by official’s “adhock” opinions highly susceptible to corruption and/or foolishness. Individuals or official panels’ determinations on a case by case basis may be superior, (but not substantially superior) than tossing of coins.

The proposed transferable Import Certificates policy grants government only the determination of the assessed approximate value of U.S. market value of goods imported into or exported from the USA, expressed in U.S. dollars.
Assessment of goods is a technical not a policy determination. It is important that all assessments be carried out in a uniform manner. Their accuracy is unimportant providing that assessments among all shipments remain somewhat proportionally correct between each other. Government is granted no deviation of policy.

Respectfully, Supposn

Excerpted from
http://www.reuters.com/article/2
012/05/25/us-eu-argentina-trade-idUSBRE84O15L20120525

WTO members have the right to ask importers to apply for an import license, but they are supposed to grant one automatically. In Argentina, however, a lot of licenses labeled "automatic" suffer long delays, according to the Commission, which is not compatible with WTO rules.
EU exports to Argentina include cars, motorcycles, textiles, toys and footwear, and last year were worth 8.3 billion euros. In 2011, Argentina's non-automatic import licenses affected EU exports worth about 500 million euros, the Commission said.
Argentina tightened its procedures in February 2012, with a new requirement for pre-approval of all imports. That means all EU exports to Argentina are now affected, a Commission official said, adding that in April the value of EU exports to Argentina was down four percent on the same month in 2011.
Three times as many containers have been stopped at Buenos Aires terminals since the latest measures were put in place, she said.
The Commission says importers of SOME GOODS are required to limit their imports, balance them with exports or invest in production facilities in Argentina.

Last edited by Supposn; 11-22-2012 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:55 AM
 
1,980 posts, read 1,323,678 times
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PVand55, unlike Argentina’s unwritten laws, drafting of transferable Import Certificate policy iminimizes governments' activities and determinations to only what’s necessary to the accomplishment of the law’s purpose.

Exporters of USA goods are entitled, (not required) to choose to pay the assessment fees and have their goods assessed and they are then (after the goods leave the USA) they’re issued transferable ICs for their assessed value. By law government cannot refuse an entitlement.

By law the assessment fees are set to cover all federal net direct expenditures due to the IC policy. The fees are not a net source of government revenue.

By law all assessments of goods are carried out in uniform manners and are approximated proportionately correct among all assessments. In practice Federal determination of goods assessed values would be under constant scrutiny and individual cases subject to legal appeal hearings from competing importers or exporters or USA producers.

The Congressional Budget Office are the non partisan federal budget advisors to the U.S. Congress. They will advise congress as to annual proposed changes of goods assessment guide lines and direct federal expenditures due to the IC policy.

By law the U.S. congress and the president have oversight over all of this.

Respectfully, Supposn

Last edited by Supposn; 11-22-2012 at 12:56 PM..
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:37 PM
 
1,980 posts, read 1,323,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The argumentative fallacy is right there in the thread title. An increase in GDP will not necessarily increase the Median Wage. The wages paid to workers is what the workers are willing to work for. The owners receive all the GDP, and then pass it along to the workers according to wage scales which are negotiated by either the individual workers or their bargaining organizations.
JTUR88, the overwhelming proportion of USA’s trade deficit’s detriment to our GDP is due to the loss of USA's better paying jobs. The earnings of many displaced employees (due to our trade deficit) are significantly less and throughout their lifetimes remain significantly less (than otherwise). Thus our trade deficit also has a detrimental effect upon our median wage.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 87,187,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
JTUR88, the overwhelming proportion of USA’s trade deficit’s detriment to our GDP is due to the loss of USA's better paying jobs. The earnings of many displaced employees (due to our trade deficit) are significantly less and throughout their lifetimes remain significantly less (than otherwise). Thus our trade deficit also has a detrimental effect upon our median wage.

Respectfully, Supposn
But that single anecdotal example doesn't necessarily mean that there is a cause and effect relationship, between them, nor that they would have the same relationship in another scenario, and least of all does it imply which is the cause and which is the effect.
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:13 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 97,039,291 times
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Yep;too mnay lamentig the days followig WWII when we were the onyl game in towen we call the eorld.Competitio is good even if not always fair. In the end protectionism is always the downward path.
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:25 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,256 posts, read 19,875,561 times
Reputation: 25830
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Free trade lets us pay less for everything we use and get more for everything we produce. Our country and the world as a whole are richer as a result. The idea of import certificates, or tariffs, or bounties, or any other restraint of trade will necessarily produce a lower standard of living for the average citizen.
Oh? Perhaps you are not aware that the United States used to have high tariffs on imports and still had the highest standard of living. Before income taxes, tariffs provided 50% of federal revenue (the other 50% coming from alcohol and tobacco excise taxes).
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