Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Something happened today, and Im wondering what I could have done differently. Im sorry this is long.
I am trying to get to the point where I can take both my youngest, Jupiter, and my oldest, Jasper, to the dog park. At the moment, Jupiter is the one I take most often, because he is the most laid-back, easy to get along with puppy ever. lol
Jasper is 7 years old, and has a rather dominant "Im not taking any of your crap" attitude. He has proven he can get along fine in a group of dogs, but I must monitor very closely which dogs to mix him with.
Ive only taken him to the park 3 times, and each time so far one of the dogs on my "list" has shown up and we've had to leave.He is fine until these dogs have shown up. Which is fine...I want to get him acclimated, but do it safely, and I realize this takes time.
Today, I took them both to the park when it was empty. Eventually another car pulls up, and, as is my practice, I immediately get control of Jasper's collar so there isnt a rush at the gate.
Once I do this and look up, I notice that the dog entering is one that has a bad reputation (As in I heard about him before even meeting him) for being very boisterous, and is a dog I dont feel would be tolerated well by Jasper. I immediately leash him up and prepare to leave.
The new dog, called Boone, comes in and from a distance is staring down Jupiter, who is still off-lead. Jasper is on leash at this point and observing the stare-down.His owner is behind him, also at a distance but still smack in front of me, and sees that I have Jasper leashed to me, around my waist. She is on a cell phone, yapping. I stand for a moment, hoping Boone doesnt come forward, and trying to catch her eye so she'll get the hint and get her dog for a moment so I can get out. They are blocking the only exit. I have observed this woman and her dog before, and I hate to say that I dont like either one of them based on body language and attitude alone.
I finally have to tell her to grab Boone's collar for a minute, which she does, but as she does so she and Boone both approach me, asking "Is he not friendly?" (DUH! Not right now he isnt...you're a stranger, he's on leash and knows I dont like you). Jasper goes NUTS, and by nuts I mean full on snarling, teeth bared. He is defensive on-leash, naturally protective of me, and sensitive to my moods. I know he is leash defensive, but I made a judgement call and thought it better to have him on leash and under control than risk anything else. I am calm and cool, slip his Halti on him, and we leave the enclosure. Once we begin walking and are away from this woman and her dog, he settles down just fine, even passing another dog with no problem.
I take him to the car, and go back for Jupiter.
When I went back in for Jupiter, the Boone's owner was talking with another woman about me and looking at me as if I was a freak show. I gave her a snappy look back, and apologized for the ruckus. She asked me if he wasnt friendly again, and I replied coolly (I admit I wasnt in a good mood beforehand...this woman didnt help it any), " Ive watched Boone before, and he plays too rough. My dog wont tolerate it, and he is defensive on-leash."
Her response? "Well all he would have had to do was snap at Boone and he would have backed off"
Two male dogs, both exceeding 50+lbs, and you want to take that shot? Ive heard several reports of this woman not doing anything about her dogs behavior until confronted with it by other owners, not recognizing dog body language, etc. It isnt Jasper that has the reputation around the park, its Boone. Perhaps its a human-to-human thing, but I didnt want my dog around hers.
I load up Jupi, then take Jasper back and walk around the perimeter of the park, because I wanted to have something about the visit end calmly.
As I am going back, I hear Boone's owners snide remark (Shes on the other side of the park from me and I can still hear her) to the other woman, "And then that THING starts snarling....."
I call over, loudly enough she can hear "Thing?! EXCUSE YOU?!"
In my eyes, she played a part in it as well by not paying attention to what was going on and yapping on her cell phone. Then she has the nerve to look at me as if Im the freak show and then call my Jasper a "Thing".
So I guess I have a few questions:
Did I handle the situation wrong? If so, how could I improve it?
Should I have just let Jasper meet Boone instead of leashing up immediately?
Could he have sensed that I didnt like this person, or possibly have not liked the way the dog was looking at Jupiter (part of his "pack")?
Im beginning to think Im never going to have any luck taking him to the park...but if I dont try and keep finding the right mix, he'll never learn. It breaks my heart to leave him behind when Jupiter and I go..he loves car rides and going places.
Any advice?
it may or may not have been a good idea to put your dog on a leash if he's more sensitive/aggressive when he's on leash, although i totally understand that you didn't want to risk something happening and you not being able to control him. but as you've correctly observed, you being nervous can make your dog more nervous.
depending on how much jasper is focused on you, you can try letting him meet dogs but distracting him away from them periodically, rewarding him each time then letting him go back. this can really defuse tension. try it with friendly dogs a bunch of times first, to be sure that he will listen to you when he's greeting.
i'd also recommend taking him in for a one on one session with a good positive trainer. i did that with my dog sadie because she can be snippy with other dogs, and the trainer really made me feel better about sadie's behavior, and taught me good tricks for spotting and preventing problems before they happen. a trainer will be able to tell you if leaving when you see a problem dog is the right solution, or whether there is something else you can do.
i feel like a broken record, cause i post this link all the time, but this is a good directory of reputable positive trainers nationwide: Dog Trainer Search
maybe, but probably not, she could be of help to you...maybe she could leash up Boone and y'all go for an hour walk side by side until the dogs are buddies. A big distance inbetween at first and after the initial chaos is calm get closer and closer. A good mile and you might even turn her cold heart a little warm and your dogs might be able to tolerate each other over a period of time and eventually in the park together. I know, I know, wishful thinking.
side by side walking is definitely a great way to get dogs acclimated to each other, but i doubt this woman could be convinced to go along with something like that. the way you describe her behavior at the dog park, i don't know if she could be convinced to walk a mile, period! she sounds like the type who just drives to the park and then stands gossiping by the fence while their dog wreaks havoc. it's worth a shot though, if you feel comfortable asking.
As I've done the dog park with the rocket dog, I've discovered two things: 1. there is a rogue's gallery of out-of-control dogs, and 2. owners often expect the dogs to settle their own differences, like kids in the sandbox. While your dog needs to be socialized, I'm not sure that any of the dogs in your rogue's gallery, especially Boone, will be helpful. So I don't see a problem with what you did. Plus, it sounds like Boone and his mama have some common personality traits. She and her dog have the bad reps, so she's trying to deflect that on someone else.
So I guess I have a few questions:
Did I handle the situation wrong?
If so, how could I improve it?
Should I have just let Jasper meet Boone instead of leashing up immediately?
Could he have sensed that I didnt like this person, or possibly have not liked the way the dog was looking at Jupiter (part of his "pack")?
Im beginning to think Im never going to have any luck taking him to the park...but if I dont try and keep finding the right mix, he'll never learn. It breaks my heart to leave him behind when Jupiter and I go..he loves car rides and going places.
Any advice?
Colddiamond - my advice? - keep Jasper out of the dog park - for his safety and your peace of mind...he's telling you in the only ways he knows how, that he's not comfortable there. And in an off-leash park, where the point of being there is 'off-leash' play - you can't expect other owners to hold their dog back, because yours 'might' not like them. I'm not picking on you - I have a dog JUST LIKE Jasper and we stay out of dog parks - we hike together, go on long neighborhood walks, take car rides for ice cream, etc., but I gave up trying to force my dog to tolerate/like/accept the gregarious actions of strange dogs outside of my control. Think about yourself - do you like total strangers to rapidly approach you and put their arm on your shoulder and ask how you are?.....likely not, right?.....well, that's how Jasper feels - total strangers are rushing him to say hi - and he's 'not that into this' if you will.......
Take your friendly, happy, get along with all, Jupiter to the dog park, if YOU think he needs that type of play....but again - even for Jupiter, off-lead play at the dog park isn't 'required' for him to be a happy dog
There are always inept dog owners at dog parks - and there are always dogs at the dog park that don't want to be there.....or shouldn't be there....and it is OKAY for you to just accept that Jasper is one of those dogs that doesn't want to be there.
Our dogs aren't toddlers learning to share toys in the sandbox and to me - they shouldn't be expected to be treated as such....if their temperaments support group play - maybe find a few dog friends with safe dogs to enjoy some playtime with.
So that's my advice - control what you can....and you already know you can't control what happens inside the fence of an off-leash dog park - with the other dogs - or their owners . (I'm not a fan of off-lead dog parks for this reason)
Last edited by Rottnboys; 04-20-2010 at 08:52 AM..
Reason: Got Jasper & Jupiter's names backwards...sorry
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,782,175 times
Reputation: 7185
Colddiamond,
It sounds to me like you have your stuff together and have done your homework. The only thing I can think of is that if you feel yourself going into "Aw sh*t" mode, you are probably having a negative effect on your dog.
My golden is pretty pushy, probably has a similar temperment with other dogs as Jupiter. I understand how challenging a tough-guy can be. If I'm at the park and an unleashed dog starts coming in our direction, I usually put him at heel and focus completely on his reaction and forget about the other dog (I try to get him to focus on me, but it doesn't always work). If he looks like he's even considering leaving a tight heel "NO! SIT!". If the other dog goes behind us I don't tolerate neck craning. I've found that as often as not, this seems to yank the welcome matt for the other dog. If the other dog is being a jerk, scooping some dirt towards his nose with your foot can speak volumes in dog-ese about how welcome he is.
You can't stay in control of the dog if you are not in control of yourself.
off-lead play at the dog park isn't 'required' for a dog to be happy
There are always inept dog owners at dog parks - and there are always dogs at the dog park that don't want to be there....
Whenever you're in a public place, you have no control over how other people behave. Add dogs into the mix and it's a bit like a minefield.
I agree wholeheartedly with Rottn. There seems to be this "theory" floating around out there that going to a dog park is almost a necessity for dog owners. Poppycock. A dog can be perfectly well-exercised on-lead and off lead play confined to a backyard or somewhere else safe from intrusion by numbskulls.
However, I can't count the number of times I'd see someone walking a med/large dog and just feel like going to bang my head against the closest hard object. No, a "meander" won't cut it. The dog needs to be kept at a trot - which means the owner needs to walk fast enough to keep the dog at a trot. The dog must be focused on moving forward and covering ground - or as every dog that has ever lived here learned, "Pee on your own time, not on mine."
Dont beat yourself up. This woman sounds like an idiot.
You did the right thing. You know what your dog is sensitve to and what triggers him and you intervened BEFORE anything happened. Completely the right call. Waiting until the situation escalates and then waiting for the other dog to back down is ridiculous.
Having a "dog list" is not a bad thing. To me it shows you are an attentive and smart owner who never wants to put her dog in a situation that she( or he) knows can get ugly.
I half- second Rottn's advice. While I do not agree that you shoudl eliminate the dog park entirely, it sounds like you should try to find him some other off leash activities that he can enjoy as well and take him to the dog park when there is less traffic or at times when the list dogs are not there.
Most dogs become more aggressive if they are on a leash while other dogs aren't on a leash. They feel threatened by not having the same advantage. Furthermore, your dog did sense your fear when you leashed him up. All of this can propel him to be on the defensive. But you did the right thing by putting him on the leash since you haven't had an opportunity to properly socialize him with other dogs. It's very important to have control of your dog when you know how your dog is likely to react negatively. Even if putting him on a leash will make him more defensive, you still have control over him.
That said, I agree that you shouldn't take him to dog parks----at least for now. You need to socialize him in a more controlled setting first. I highly recommend getting a trainer who is familiar with helping socialize dogs. Group lessons would also be highly beneficial. You really need to address this before you head off to a dog park again. But I disagree that you should avoid the dog park permanently by playing in your yard instead. Your dog needs to be socialized----even if you never go to a dog park again----because your dog will run into other dogs throughout his life. They see other dogs while taking leashed walks. They see dogs when they go to the vets. You just can't give up and not try to train him to be properly socialized.
As for the wicked witch in the park, I do think your dog sensed how you feel about her. My dog peek-a-poo always knew when I didnt' like someone. You do need to learn to keep your feelings in check. The fearful rush to leash him up, along with your negative feelings about the owner, were contributing factors.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
