Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hi Jan, As usual your answer and guidance was really helpful. I think the thing that bothers us most with the blood is reading a post in which someone had a dog who bled to death. When I shared that fact with my husband and that this can spread to the dog's brain, we have both been on pins and needles. The doctor friend mixed about 1 tsp. salt, 1/2 tsp. activated charcoal (extremely fine powder) and 1 cup of water for the mixture. We used some of that a couple of times to put in the nose with an ear siringe. Yesterday the bleeding was better, except there was a small puddle on the oriental rug where she was laying when we came home from eating dinner out. She is finishing up on her heavy duty antibiotic which has at least temporarily cleared up her sinus condition. We still hear some heavy breathing when she is sleeping, but otherwise she sounds much better. She still loves to go for walks and when people see her she seems totally normal, except for the blood. How much cottage cheese and flaxseed oil do you use? I would like to try that. I know you did palliative radiation. Our oncologist did not use that terminology but he said that we could use 6 treatments instead of 12, which would reduce the size of the tumor and make the dog more comfortable, but not be a cure. So far she does seem to be comfortable, but we are on pins and needles watching to see that she is not. Like everyone else we are doing things like walking her more often and doing whatever we can to make her more happy. Your wealth of information and generous sharing of it is greatly appreciated!!
Virginia10,
I think the reality of a dog bleeding to death is very low. My oncologist never mentioned that as a possibility. Nasal cancer is very vascular, so what you see are small vessels/capillaries being damaged. Of all the things that I'm freaked out about happening to my dog with this disease, bleeding to death is not even on my list. I hope that helps relieve some of your worry.
For my 60ish pound dog, I give 4 tsp lowfat cottage cheese and 2 tps flaxseed oil twice per day. I blend it with a hand blender until it is smooth. According to stuff I've seen on the internet, the blending is important. Before I had the blender, I used a spoon and whipped it up really good. I know Bear's dad only gives it once per day, but every time I try to back down, he seems to be more sneezing and drippy. I'm sure it's a coincidence, but I've just kept with it. The protocol is called Budwig's Protocol, and you can read about it in various places--just google it.
Virginia10, I agree that is is not common for a dog with nasal cancer to bleed to death. I guess it would be possible if the cancer spread and ate into a large artery. My oncologist said usually it spreads into the brain then you would have seizures or other neurological signs or it spreads into the lungs and breathing becomes very difficult, the dog would get short of breath with activity and may cough alot. Or as Dash's seems to be doing it takes the path of least resistance and starts growing outward and then you get the swelling on the muzzle. Maybe the eye pops out or the cancer eats through the hard palate with these it becomes a comfort issue.
My friend had a 15 year old border collie that started having seizures a few years ago and they were infrequent and no cause was found, no meds given because they were not frequent. Several months ago she and her husband had to go away for a weekend and had one of their college age daughters come home to dog sit. Well the dog developed a MAJOR nose bleed, she soaked through several towels it was that bad. They got home the next day and took her to the vet and the vet said she thought it was time to consider putting the dog down. They took her home for one more night and put a stack of towels down and put her on them and my friend slept on the floor with her. She had some more major bleeding but did not die from it and in the morning they said their good byes and had her put to sleep. They do not know if she had brain tumor, nasal cancer or what. When my friend called to tell me she said " I don't know how you have done it for so long with Dash as that bleeding was horrible" then she told me how it soaked through several towels, Dash has never been that bad, but as bad as their dogs was she did not bleed to death.
It has been my experience from working in the hospital all these years that when someone bleeds to death it is so fast there is nothing you can do about it. It is over in minutes. I have seen it only a few times and it was either lung or a neck cancer and there was no mistaking what was happening as when a major artery gets a leak it gushes out fast.
Try to relax and know that most of the bleeds are self limiting and that holding ice on the muzzle can help stop them. The problem is they get a bleed it soon clots then they sneeze and the clot rips off and the bleeding starts again so it can take awhile to get a clot that holds. If you are having trouble getting it to stop sometimes the vets can put medicine down the nose that will help stop it but I have never needed that.
As for the noises, when friends visit they get freaked buy Dash's noises especially the sound like a kid slurping that last drop of a shake through a straw. I really don't notice them as much these days as he has been like this for so long that it is just Dash.
After awhile it is just all pretty normal so you quite being so nervous about the noises and the bleeds and as long as quality of life seems good you just keep moving forward. Jan
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,032,639 times
Reputation: 28903
Jan, I don't have any reason (thank God) to read this thread, but every time I see your username as the last respondant, my heart stops for a second and I feel the need to make sure that Dash is OK.
DandJ , Thanks, Dash is hanging in there but is starting to slow down a bit and showing some signs that the cancer is gaining ground. He just had lab work and it is all stable so his kidneys and liver are still doing Ok with his medicines. He has sneezed out a few more chunks of tissue but the swelling is pretty persistant of course it could be from his neoplasene as it will cause swelling. As long as he still eats and seems to enjoy walks, car rides ,babysitting his new brother Dazzle and just hanging out with Jazz and I we will keep fighting. Jan
Erica and Jan, Thanks so much for the heads up on the bleeding- I will now put that near the bottom of my list too. I am most concerned about the cancer spreading to the hard and soft palate. When they did Ally's MRI there was some evidence that it was spreading there and that's why we moved forward with the advanced rhinoscopy and additional biopsies. She has always been a fussy eater and now I am hypersensitive about it. Today she did not eat her dog food, but ate some chicken when I came home. I have read about the special diets that are recommended for dogs with cancer. I intend to try those, even though the vets say to just keep her on a high quality dog food. The problem is we are leaving on a long arranged cruise in 2 weeks and my son is coming to stay with Ally. He is very nervous about the responsibility and I thought that it would be easier if I kept her on dog food until I return- the truth is I am very nervous about leaving her. I retired after 40 years of teaching in June and thought I would finally have some time for myself. In Sept. my mom had a ruptured brain aneurysm. I stayed in the hospital for 3 months with her. Only a small percentage of people who have as massive a bleed as she did survive. Miraculously she survived and has had a complete recovery, except that she is still tired and now is living with us. We just get through that and now we are living through this tragedy with the dog. Then I read what all of you are going through and I am encouraged to hang in there and look for the good things that are happening with our dear dog. Thanks again for all the guidance and encouragement!!
I find it amazing that this thread is 61 pages long. Why do we not have any threads like this on liver, bladder, or kidney cancer? What is causing nasal cancer in our dogs? I find it very disturbing.
Your story about your friends Border Collie really hit home. I am sure you realized that. If it was not
for the seizures it would be a blueprint of what happened to Hogan. I got that deep hurt zap.
I have been looking for dogs which helps. But those nights are really tough. I always check this thread to see how dash and the others are doing. Just thought I'd drop in and say hi and good luck to all...
Rod
i am happy to see you checking up on all of us. tillie is doing well, dripping a little but not bloody and still playful, eating and happy. i don't often think to write about the non-eventful days so i am glad to take this opportunity to report that nothing bad is happening to her today. hope that is true for the rest of the dogs on the thread.
arlene
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jan
