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Ever since I was a kid I'd take apart VCRs, mess around on my Dad's VIC-20 and always loved computers. I fixed them, built them and troubleshooted for friends and family throughout High School.
When I went to college, I went to get a BA, and the only tech courses were for IS/CS tracks and not IT. I was bad at math, but good at reasoning, so I ended up getting my degree in something else (Philosophy).
For the past 8 years I've been working at a Library but for the last 4 years I've taken on a lot of help desk/server admin/general IT work, while learning from the main tech here.
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For the past couple of years I've been wanting to branch out to a Tier 2, 3 help desk or Junior Admin position, but the economy coupled with a saturated market, kinda left me behind as more qualified (both on paper and experience) people got those positions.
I didn't want to go back to school so I've read a lot on the pros and cons about certifications especially (the CompTIA ones) and ultimately decided that they are worth studying. I'm currently self-studying for the A+ and will study for the N+ after I pass the A+ test. If anything I think these sorts of certs will get me past the HR screeners, so that I then can talk about my experience.
While studying (and answering the prep questions for the A+) I'm at about 75%. The answers I don't know are either standards and practices type questions or questions about bus speeds; or just things that are just theoretical and never call upon on the field.
However just by reading the study guides I'm getting a greater understanding; filling in that 25% gap and actually learning. I am more excited for the N+ as, even though I know how to set up home routers and fix basic network errors, I want and need to know more how larger networks are set up and how IPs are addressed and all of that.
When I pass the N+, I'll try my hand at the job market again, then eventually go for either a CCNA or MCSA: Server within the next couple of years.
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Sorry for the mostly narcissistic post, but I'm actually pretty excited and hope that A+/N+ validates to me and employers that I do have what it takes for some of these positions.
What was your tech history like? How did you get into computers?
What are your guy's feeling on certs? Do you have many/none? Did you get far without them?
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TL;DR
Self-taught in computers, currently studying for A+/N+/other certs, think it's going to help in the short and long run. What do you think?
They don't hurt to have but they're not something you want to lean on exclusively. Like you said they will help you if the company you are looking to work for has their HR dept go through all the resumes first before sending them onto the IT director or whatever.
Overall the general consensus from what I've seen and read is that A+/N+ don't make you but if you don't have them, it can only hurt your chances so it's pretty standard to have them.
If you try working for an company where the IT dept is in charge of the first line of resume picking instead of HR, you'll often find that they care far less about certifications and more on common sense, work experience and general troubleshooting skills. If you know how to deconstruct a problem to it's basic elements, you can fix anything (also master your google-foo).
I'm almost done studying for my CCNA (I took all the classes in college to get the cert but I got a job about a month before I graduated and never got a chance to take the test), and then I'll be gearing up to get my MCSA, I'm pretty excited about it.
Well, first of all, good luck on chasing down those certifications.
I don't know if there are any absolutes as far as answers on certifications. Will an A+ or an N+ validate you with employers? Maybe, maybe not. Some companies require it, most companies don't but may think it's a plus having a cert. I don't have a cert, but I do have a four year degree in IT. I have nearly a decade of experience, and it's still pretty competitive even for a guy like me who has built up a pretty decent IT resume.
I won't say you won't leap frog entry level, but I'd say your best bet is to go back to school and at least get a 2 year degree in General I.T. to supplement the certification. In the grand scheme of things, A+ and N+ don't carry any weight over a bachelor degree and especially not over real work experience. However, it doesn't hurt to have those certifications, especially since you don't have the education. I would recommended to shoot for a first level help desk job and work my way up. You're going to have to prove yourself by taking your lumps and working through the system more than likely.
I Google, and I'm very good at finding things. I mean that's a decent portion of my job, until the problems become common enough, then I just know what to do.
I do have experience, but right now I'm basically just doing IT part-time/extra-time on top of my current job. I'm mostly fielding and escalating. But I'll do a lot of Tier 1 (Tier 2 stuff on occasion), and work on a couple servers, labs, networking, printers, laptops, etc. I do a lot of "patching up" until our main tech can swing by; because I'm there everyday and he's only here 3 days a week.
I have put in a lot of extra hours in just to get where I'm at experience-wise, but again it's difficult to translate that vs. people who both have experience, degrees and/or certs (in IT).
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I'm in a position currently where I can be picky, so I don't really want to do entry level help desk, especially at entry level pay. I figured that certs, a BA (although unrelated) and 4+ years of experience would be sufficient to skip one rung and jump start a career.
Though I'm not against going back to school for an (AA), it's just that I'd figure I'd try the cheaper, less time intensive route, before anything else.
harhar, I always felt that you seem like a competent techie type from your posts so I think you should be able to find something more along the lines of what you have chosen as a career path.
Current job market dictates, more than ever, it is who you know more than what you know. Having a vast social and professional network could yield a much more successful outcome in your job search than couple of certs minus the years of "hands-on" experience. Definitely get the certs if the type of job postings you are after seem to require them. Sometimes a harmless BS like "Currently working on obtaining the xxx certification" in the Skills section could fool them into thinking you actually have the cert or could allow them to still consider you as an acceptable candidate then require you to get the cert after you get the job.
From what I have experienced and as others mentioned, having those certs would most certainly not hurt you and in some cases, might get your resume selected for an interview but having the right personality and/or having the right connections will get the person hired more often than not.
I always told people that it is better to make a list of target companies you would want to work at then apply at a list of companies that are hiring for positions that may fit you because when I was job hunting, I sensed that at least 50% of the jobs were not valid, either expired or cancelled. I would say more like 70% of the jobs if you include the fake job postings; for compliance, position is already spoken for but they post the opening just to be "by the book" or for budgeting/finance reasons, companies seem to use this tactic sometimes.
Anyhow, to get the job, you have to impress and convince the hiring manager AKA sell yourself. Whether you have the required skills or not, you have to impress the interviewers with your energy and passion.
If you didn't get good sleep the night before or not feeling well or excessively nervous, they can tell and it won't look good. I noticed hiring managers responded really well when I was really excited about the position and company and to them, it is just as important as having the right skills. You have to look totally excited like you are seeing **** the first time in your life (minus the wood).
Believe it or not, I lost a Jr. DB Admin position to a guy who had like 8+ years of SQL experience where I had pretty much very little to none. A former colleague of mine who worked at the company, put in a good word for me with the manager of that dept. When I found out the position required and relied on MS SQL skills, I didn't they would even call me in because I had very limited exposure. They did mainly because someone who they know and trust put in a good word for me otherwise they would have never even picked my resume out of 30 resumes that made it to final review. Out of the 30, they picked 7 candidate for in-person interview. I eliminated 5 others not just by having my friends referral but also by my interviewing skills and personality. Dept. manager told me that she actually preferred me due to my excitement level, overall technical background and personality while her team felt the other fellow would be more beneficial to the team and company due to his extensive relevant experience. I didn't blame them because I would have done the same. However, this should show you that some jerk-off with little to no experience was able to eliminate bunch of others who had various degrees of relevant experience and certs.
The reason I am writing this longass post is to show you that certs/degree doesn't always get you the job or even an interview.
If I was younger and was trying to break in to the field, I would pick a technology company and try to get a job there. Any job because once you are in, even as a mail runner, you have a much better chance of getting a job you are trying to by making connections with the people in that department and also having a very good relationship with the dept. manager. I know you might think I am joking but not.
Unless you have professional connections within that company or a friend/family friend is one of the higher ups, you would need excellent relevant skills and luck to even make it to the interview.
One final word; talk to people in real life, become friends, sometimes the least expected people in your social network could be the most helpful. A lady I worked with at a previous company mentioned to me that their IT guy had a fight with the IT Director and ended up leaving. We didn't know each other that well but I ran into her at Wal-Mart when shopping and at the time I was in between jobs. So, I contacted the company pretended that I didn't know what happened and simply stated that I relocated back to California and was looking for as XXXX with a good company. Then continued to mentioned my run in with the ex colleague and how she spoke so highly of the company where she worked at, etc.
Needless to say, I got the job since it was a small company and they needed someone fast. I had the talk with the IT Director and HR on Wednesday, also e-mailed a copy of my resume (why do people always ask for a copy of your resume when you are e-mailing? Of course it is going to be a copy, right?).
Thursday I had a phone interview, Friday in person interview 30-40 minutes later the job offer and following Monday 1st day at work.
How you think about finding/applying for a position tells a lot about what kind of a worker you will be.
Be a go-getter who thinks outside the box. Sorry for the long post.
What was your tech history like? How did you get into computers?
What are your guy's feeling on certs? Do you have many/none? Did you get far without them?
---
TL;DR
Self-taught in computers, currently studying for A+/N+/other certs, think it's going to help in the short and long run. What do you think?
I think you have the right approach. Doing this to learn - rather as simply a mechanism to obtain a (better) job. Sure, the two overlap - but there is a difference between one that applies effort to expand their knowledge vs. one that just goes through the motions to get that paper and expects to be rewarded.
Certs are great when they are used appropriately. In operations - Skills/knowledge is the key. Skills + certs = better paying job than skills alone. However, today - certs alone rarely gets you anything. They're supposed to valiate your skills, not be used in lieu of them. Just my .02.
I have three main certs that relate to my career (CISSP, CISM, CRISC). I don't think having those letters on my resume alone got me better jobs - but being in those organizations certainly helped broaden my network/knowledge, which in turn definitely helped my career. I have a couple of other certs that I got as part of the CPE requirements.
I have no certificatons and have been doing deskside support for years now. My path was that I started at a company as an assistant to a Partner who wanted their own tech support person. CIO wouldn't pay for a designated person so I was just basically told "you're an assistant in title/level, but you do tech support".
Eventually, I officialy joined their organization and have been working at it ever since 2001.
Based on what I saw many years ago when I took the A+ test, a lot of places pretty much required it, so I went and took the test. I thought it was a no-brainer, but people said you needed it, so I got it. One aspect that some people needed to bone up on to get through the A+ was laser printers. Now that A+ expires every few years, I would make sure I needed it before paying to take the test.
I thought the material covered on the N+ test was generally useful for most techie-type people. You may already know everything there is to know about TCP/IP, but must people who learn networking by hands-on experience will fill in the gaps in their knowledge of networking protocols by reviewing the class study materials for N+.
I thought the stuff covered on a+ was stuff every decent computer tech should already know (other than all that printer stuff). Your experience may be different.
harhar, I always felt that you seem like a competent techie type from your posts so I think you should be able to find something more along the lines of what you have chosen as a career path.
Current job market dictates, more than ever, it is who you know more than what you know. Having a vast social and professional network could yield a much more successful outcome in your job search than couple of certs minus the years of "hands-on" experience. Definitely get the certs if the type of job postings you are after seem to require them. Sometimes a harmless BS like "Currently working on obtaining the xxx certification" in the Skills section could fool them into thinking you actually have the cert or could allow them to still consider you as an acceptable candidate then require you to get the cert after you get the job.
From what I have experienced and as others mentioned, having those certs would most certainly not hurt you and in some cases, might get your resume selected for an interview but having the right personality and/or having the right connections will get the person hired more often than not.
I always told people that it is better to make a list of target companies you would want to work at then apply at a list of companies that are hiring for positions that may fit you because when I was job hunting, I sensed that at least 50% of the jobs were not valid, either expired or cancelled. I would say more like 70% of the jobs if you include the fake job postings; for compliance, position is already spoken for but they post the opening just to be "by the book" or for budgeting/finance reasons, companies seem to use this tactic sometimes.
Anyhow, to get the job, you have to impress and convince the hiring manager AKA sell yourself. Whether you have the required skills or not, you have to impress the interviewers with your energy and passion.
If you didn't get good sleep the night before or not feeling well or excessively nervous, they can tell and it won't look good. I noticed hiring managers responded really well when I was really excited about the position and company and to them, it is just as important as having the right skills. You have to look totally excited like you are seeing **** the first time in your life (minus the wood).
Believe it or not, I lost a Jr. DB Admin position to a guy who had like 8+ years of SQL experience where I had pretty much very little to none. A former colleague of mine who worked at the company, put in a good word for me with the manager of that dept. When I found out the position required and relied on MS SQL skills, I didn't they would even call me in because I had very limited exposure. They did mainly because someone who they know and trust put in a good word for me otherwise they would have never even picked my resume out of 30 resumes that made it to final review. Out of the 30, they picked 7 candidate for in-person interview. I eliminated 5 others not just by having my friends referral but also by my interviewing skills and personality. Dept. manager told me that she actually preferred me due to my excitement level, overall technical background and personality while her team felt the other fellow would be more beneficial to the team and company due to his extensive relevant experience. I didn't blame them because I would have done the same. However, this should show you that some jerk-off with little to no experience was able to eliminate bunch of others who had various degrees of relevant experience and certs.
The reason I am writing this longass post is to show you that certs/degree doesn't always get you the job or even an interview.
If I was younger and was trying to break in to the field, I would pick a technology company and try to get a job there. Any job because once you are in, even as a mail runner, you have a much better chance of getting a job you are trying to by making connections with the people in that department and also having a very good relationship with the dept. manager. I know you might think I am joking but not.
Unless you have professional connections within that company or a friend/family friend is one of the higher ups, you would need excellent relevant skills and luck to even make it to the interview.
One final word; talk to people in real life, become friends, sometimes the least expected people in your social network could be the most helpful. A lady I worked with at a previous company mentioned to me that their IT guy had a fight with the IT Director and ended up leaving. We didn't know each other that well but I ran into her at Wal-Mart when shopping and at the time I was in between jobs. So, I contacted the company pretended that I didn't know what happened and simply stated that I relocated back to California and was looking for as XXXX with a good company. Then continued to mentioned my run in with the ex colleague and how she spoke so highly of the company where she worked at, etc.
Needless to say, I got the job since it was a small company and they needed someone fast. I had the talk with the IT Director and HR on Wednesday, also e-mailed a copy of my resume (why do people always ask for a copy of your resume when you are e-mailing? Of course it is going to be a copy, right?).
Thursday I had a phone interview, Friday in person interview 30-40 minutes later the job offer and following Monday 1st day at work.
How you think about finding/applying for a position tells a lot about what kind of a worker you will be.
Be a go-getter who thinks outside the box. Sorry for the long post.
Good luck!
I appreciate the comments and yes that's great advice. Networking is very important.
In my current position I have networked (internally), but there just aren't any open positions (at my current employer), and probably won't be for the foreseeable future. My irons have been in the fire for a while, it's just that the flame is a weak one. I'd love to keep working where I am, but there's just no growth.
I plan on doing some contract work, or more freelance stuff, if I can, if just to get my name out there and create more connections.
It's funny, I can "sell" other people; when I help them with their resumes and finding their qualities, it's just tough to do when it's yourself.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macroy
I think you have the right approach. Doing this to learn - rather as simply a mechanism to obtain a (better) job. Sure, the two overlap - but there is a difference between one that applies effort to expand their knowledge vs. one that just goes through the motions to get that paper and expects to be rewarded.
Certs are great when they are used appropriately. In operations - Skills/knowledge is the key. Skills + certs = better paying job than skills alone. However, today - certs alone rarely gets you anything. They're supposed to valiate your skills, not be used in lieu of them. Just my .02.
I have three main certs that relate to my career (CISSP, CISM, CRISC). I don't think having those letters on my resume alone got me better jobs - but being in those organizations certainly helped broaden my network/knowledge, which in turn definitely helped my career. I have a couple of other certs that I got as part of the CPE requirements.
Yeah I think that certs should be used for validating as well. I can't see how you can take a class and "get" working out in the field. But I also can't see passing the test without experience. So much of the A+ seems to rely on actual work experience. Obviously there are 'braindumps' and hardcore cramming but with no experience, a halfway decent IT manager could tell if there's experience backing it or not.
I appreciate the comments and yes that's great advice. Networking is very important.
You are quite welcome. I hope it wasn't too "preachy"!
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In my current position I have networked (internally), but there just aren't any open positions (at my current employer), and probably won't be for the foreseeable future. My irons have been in the fire for a while, it's just that the flame is a weak one. I'd love to keep working where I am, but there's just no growth.
Sounds like it is time to move on!
Quote:
I plan on doing some contract work, or more freelance stuff, if I can, if just to get my name out there and crete more connections.
Sounds like a good option. Also talk to local computer shops if you feel like you need to build more "hands on" experience. Even agree to work as an intern part-time for a week or more so they can assess your skills before hiring. That could often get an employer, who would otherwise turn you down due to lack of "on paper" experience, to give you a shot. Most of those seemingly small computer shops actually provide additional services and house calls for various technical work including networking, etc. so you could easily build experience working at one of those shops while studying for the exams.
Here is what I recommend you to try (I am not kidding), dress reasonably well, grab an attache case or one of those professional looking portfolio cases and take several copies of your resume. Then visit a nearby business complex, you know one of those business centers with bunch of small or medium offices.
Go into each and every one of them and ask if they have an on-site IT person or would be interested in hiring someone. If they say anything like "we already have someone that comes when we need help" or "there is an external company that provides that service for us", find out what company that is and make a note to apply at that company. That is one way of generating a list of what companies you can apply for that "contract" work.
Till you are "seasoned" and/or obtain the skills that would make you in demand, you will have to rely on your social connections and unorthodox job search methods instead of applying at job posted on careerbuilder or monster which is a waste of time 99% of the time, even for a seasoned pro.
Quote:
It's funny, I can "sell" other people; when I help them with their resumes and finding their qualities, it's just tough to do when it's yourself.
Oh so typical! I can play a matchmaker and hook my friends with girls I am not attracted but when it comes to me talking to a girl I adore, I turn into a caveman and unable to string up a sentence, mouth open, saliva dripping from the side of it.
Quote:
Yeah I think that certs should be used for validating as well. I can't see how you can take a class and "get" working out in the field. But I also can't see passing the test without experience. So much of the A+ seems to rely on actual work experience. Obviously there are 'braindumps' and hardcore cramming but with no experience, a halfway decent IT manager could tell if there's experience backing it or not.
I agree with this but it is also a dilemma similar getting a credit card the first time, banks want to see a credit history/rating to give you one but you need one to accumulate a credit history and rating! Talk about catch-22 and kind of the same situation when it comes to my feelings about certs. I got A+, N+, CNA, MCSE and recently CCNA along with few other minor ones but in my case, 95% of the info I learned during my cert studying is long gone. Why? Well, you really do not use it but you need the certs to get the job where you can build more practical and applicable skills pertaining to whatever position you hold. a Desktop Admin/Tech can really vary from one place to another and it seems at least half your knowledge becomes obsolete when you leave the job that you acquired them at.
If you have chosen this as a career path, at the very least A+ and perhaps for some flexibility and additional credentials, Network+ certs would be wise to obtain so I say go for it!
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