College students don't "understand the basic terms of a student loan"

[aus10]

Originally Posted by poweramplifyingionairline

The feds lumped college loan programs into the ACA.

It wasn't well reported at the time.

Not all college programs are included in the ACA.. but there are some new products and new procedures.

And these new loans will be administered by the Department of Education.... can we guess how well these will be managed?

[mkpunk]

Originally Posted by stan4

IMO, high school is its own thing that doesn't exist to "prep" you for college (unless you're taking prep courses). The education there is for itself. College is another step for those who can hack it.

But we as a society say that you NEED to hack a college education. It's not a question of those who can.

Originally Posted by poweramplifyingionairline

I agree about the lack of knowledge about loans, but personally I find the current loan system to be a joke.

You borrow money because you NEED something and don't have it. So why would the 1st month automatically begin asking for the money back? If you had the money, you wouldn't have loaned for it in the first place!

Even six months after now. It's not like graduates can find jobs let alone good paying jobs...

[Gatornation]

Originally Posted by mkpunk

But we as a society say that you NEED to hack a college education. It's not a question of those who can.



Even six months after now. It's not like graduates can find jobs let alone good paying jobs...

I'm sure it is lower now than 2007.

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In 2011, the unemployment rate for people in their 20s with at least a bachelor’s degree was 5.7 percent. For those with only a high school diploma or a G.E.D., it was nearly three times as high, at 16.2 percent.

[ForkInTheRoad]

I don't trust unemployment figures. How are they sampling the labor force? There are way too many factors to consider.

Undocumented unemployed. I don't recall submitting my information about my employment status anywhere.

Taxes? What if there's undocumented income or fraud in the books? Some people may be faking unemployment and end up appearing in the unemployment numbers.

Part-Timers qualifying for Unemployment (if you earn X amount and work X hours, you can get unemployment still in some states.) Do they count those people too? That's not unemployment. That's "underemployment."

Willfully unemployed. Kids who are mooching of someone and claiming unemployment (or being figured in for some reason) who aren't looking for a job at all right now.

Then again I haven't bothered looking into the DoL's sourcing. I'm just too used to media-fluffed B.S. numbers.

[mkpunk]

Originally Posted by ForkInTheRoad

I don't trust unemployment figures. How are they sampling the labor force? There are way too many factors to consider.

Undocumented unemployed. I don't recall submitting my information about my employment status anywhere.

Taxes? What if there's undocumented income or fraud in the books? Some people may be faking unemployment and end up appearing in the unemployment numbers.

Part-Timers qualifying for Unemployment (if you earn X amount and work X hours, you can get unemployment still in some states.) Do they count those people too? That's not unemployment. That's "underemployment."

Willfully unemployed. Kids who are mooching of someone and claiming unemployment (or being figured in for some reason) who aren't looking for a job at all right now.

Then again I haven't bothered looking into the DoL's sourcing. I'm just too used to media-fluffed B.S. numbers.

The DoL goes by certain guidelines.

Here are the guidelines for the BLS to deem someone employed:

Who is counted as employed?
Not all of the wide range of job situations in the American economy fit neatly into a given category. For example, people are considered employed if they did any work at all for pay or profit during the survey week. This includes all part-time and temporary work, as well as regular full-time, year-round employment. Persons also are counted as employed if they have a job at which they did not work during the survey week, whether they were paid or not, because they were: On vacation, Ill, Experiencing child-care problems, Taking care of some other family or personal obligation, On maternity or paternity leave, Involved in an industrial dispute, and Prevented from working by bad weather
These persons are counted among the employed and tabulated separately as "with a job but not at work," because they have a specific job to which they will return.

Here are the guidelines for the BLS to deem someone unemployed:

Who is counted as unemployed?
Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work. Actively looking for work may consist of any of the following activities: Contacting: An employer directly or having a job interview; A public or private employment agency, Friends or relatives; or A school or university employment center, Sending out resumes or filling out applications, Placing or answering advertisements, Checking union or professional registers, or Some other means of active job search
Passive methods of job search do not have the potential to result in a job offer and therefore do not qualify as active job search methods. Examples of passive methods include attending a job training program or course, or merely reading about job openings that are posted in newspapers or on the Internet.

Workers expecting to be recalled from temporary layoff are counted as unemployed, whether or not they have engaged in a specific jobseeking activity. In all other cases, the individual must have been engaged in at least one active job search activity in the 4 weeks preceding the interview and be available for work (except for temporary illness).

The questions used in the interviews are carefully designed to elicit the most accurate picture of each person's labor force activities. Some of the major questions that determine employment status are: (The capitalized words are emphasized when read by the interviewers.)

Does anyone in this household have a business or a farm?
LAST WEEK, did you do ANY work for (either) pay (or profit)?
If the answer to question 1 is "yes" and the answer to question 2 is "no," the next question is:
LAST WEEK, did you do any unpaid work in the family business or farm?
For those who reply "no" to both questions 2 and 3, the next key questions used to determine employment status are:
LAST WEEK, (in addition to the business,) did you have a job, either full or part time? Include any job from which you were temporarily absent.
LAST WEEK, were you on layoff from a job?
What was the main reason you were absent from work LAST WEEK?
For those who respond "yes" to question 5 about being on layoff, the following questions are asked:
Has your employer given you a date to return to work?
and, if "no,"
Have you been given any indication that you will be recalled to work within the next 6 months?
If the responses to either question 7 or 8 indicate that the person expects to be recalled from layoff, he or she is counted as unemployed. For those who were reported as having no job or business from which they were absent or on layoff, the next question is:
Have you been doing anything to find work during the last 4 weeks?
For those who say "yes," the next question is:
What are all of the things you have done to find work during the last 4 weeks?
If an active method of looking for work, such as those listed at the beginning of this section, is mentioned, the following question is asked:
LAST WEEK, could you have started a job if one had been offered?
If there is no reason, except temporary illness, that the person could not take a job, he or she is considered to be not only looking but also available for work and is counted as unemployed.

Here are the guidelines for the BLS to deem someone not in the labor force:

Who is not in the labor force?
Labor force measures are based on the civilian noninstitutional population 16 years old and over. Excluded are persons under 16 years of age, all persons confined to institutions such as nursing homes and prisons, and persons on active duty in the Armed Forces. As mentioned previously, the labor force is made up of the employed and the unemployed. The remainder—those who have no job and are not looking for one—are counted as "not in the labor force." Many who are not in the labor force are going to school or are retired. Family responsibilities keep others out of the labor force.

A series of questions is asked each month of persons not in the labor force to obtain information about their desire for work, the reasons why they had not looked for work in the last 4 weeks, their prior job search, and their availability for work. These questions include:

Do you currently want a job, either full or part time?
What is the main reason you were not looking for work during the LAST 4 WEEKS?
Did you look for work at any time during the last 12 months?
LAST WEEK, could you have started a job if one had been offered?
These questions form the basis for estimating the number of persons who are not in the labor force but who are considered to be "marginally attached to the labor force." These are persons without jobs who are not currently looking for work (and therefore are not counted as unemployed), but who nevertheless have demonstrated some degree of labor force attachment. Specifically, to be counted as "marginally attached to the labor force," individuals must indicate that they currently want a job, have looked for work in the last 12 months (or since they last worked if they worked within the last 12 months), and are available for work. "Discouraged workers" are a subset of the marginally attached. Discouraged workers report they are not currently looking for work for one of four reasons:

They believe no job is available to them in their line of work or area.
They had previously been unable to find work.
They lack the necessary schooling, training, skills, or experience.
Employers think they are too young or too old, or they face some other type of discrimination.
Additional questions about persons not in the labor force are asked during each household's last month of its 4-month tenure in the sample rotation pattern. These questions are designed to collect information about why these people left their previous jobs, when they last worked at a job or business, and whether they intend to look for work in the near future.

As for overlap:

What about cases of overlap?
When the population is classified according to who is employed, unemployed, and not in the labor force on the basis of their activities during a given calendar week, situations are often encountered where individuals have engaged in more than one activity. Since individuals are counted only once, a system of priorities is used to determine status. Labor force activities take precedence over non-labor force activities and working or having a job takes precedence over looking for work.

To summarize, employed persons are: All persons who did any work for pay or profit during the survey week,All persons who did at least 15 hours of unpaid work in a family-owned enterprise operated by someone in their household and All persons who were temporarily absent from their regular jobs because of illness, vacation, bad weather, industrial dispute, or various personal reasons, whether or not they were paid for the time off.
Unemployed persons are: All persons who did not have a job at all during the survey reference week, made at least one specific active effort to find a job during the prior 4 weeks, and were available for work (unless temporarily ill) and All persons who were not working and were waiting to be called back to a job from which they had been laid off (they need not be looking for work to be classified as unemployed).

Because of the complexities of the American economic system and the wide variety of job arrangements and jobseeking efforts, the definitions of employment and unemployment must be specific to ensure uniformity of reporting at any given time and over any period of time. When all of the details are considered, definitions may seem rather complicated. The basic concepts, however, remain little changed: People with jobs are employed, people who do not have jobs and are looking for jobs are unemployed, and people who meet neither labor market test are not in the labor force. The qualifying conditions are necessary to cover the wide range of labor force patterns and to provide an objective set of standards for consistent treatment of cases.

I hope this answers your questions. I still agree it is a tough nut to crack and is a bit nebulous to figure out.