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Old 09-22-2013, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,120 posts, read 8,068,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Anyhow, this is about supply/demand, the wages for these jobs wouldn't be high if the market was flooded with people that can successfully perform the jobs.
There's actually two different markets in a great many fields. (1.) The job market for NEW inexperienced graduates. (2.) The job market for people who have several years of experience.

The first job market contains a much much larger pool of applicants than the second job market. In a great many if not most cases, employers would prefer to hire people who fall into the second category because they are more profitable and have a track record of actual real world productivity (whereas inexperienced new graduates need to be trained). Thus, incomes for experienced people will be high since their supply is necessarily limited (especially if the hiring of new graduates was curtailed in the past, perhaps because of recession, since that means fewer experienced people in the present).

This phenomenon explains how you can have plenty of unemployed people who are qualified to work in a field but have high incomes for those who are already experienced in the field.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,120 posts, read 8,068,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
This isn't an important metric either. Firstly, you should note that the participation rate for the US labor market is around 60%, there are a lot of people that don't work or work part-time by choice.
...And is it possible that many of that 40% is unemployed or underemployed part-time involuntarily? Many people who are not working "by choice" may have "chosen" early retirement or to stay at home and raise children (because the available job opportunities are not worthwhile). Also, a great many of the people who are in graduate school should be regarded as unemployed/underemployed, especially if they are in graduate school because the opportunities available with their undergraduate degrees were unpalatable to them.

Quote:
Most people with BA/BS in chem, according to the chart you cited, continue their education.
...and then they end their education with an MS or PhD...and...then what happens to them in the job market?

Quote:
Firstly, chemistry doesn't take "more effort than almost all other majors".
OMG! Seriously?
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,120 posts, read 8,068,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Anyhow, perhaps chemistry is a poor degree option, I've certainly never held it in high regard. Sorta seemed like girlie physics to me. But I also have little experience with it. But what is the case for chemistry isn't magically true for all other STEM fields, STEM is a very broad category of fields.....
Never held it in high regard? It's a core, central science that is absolutely required for any understanding of bio-physiology. If humanity lacked a knowledge of chemistry we might understand Astrophysics and Particle Physics and Engineering but would know nothing about medicine, genetics, bio-physiology, materials science, etc. We wouldn't have gasoline nor combustion engines. At the highest levels a knowledge of Physics is required to understand chemistry (Physical Chemistry, Biophysics, Analytical Chemistry, advanced Organic Chemistry concepts).

It may not be as mathematically intricate as Physics, but that doesn't mean that it isn't quantitative nor abstract.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,120 posts, read 8,068,811 times
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Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
I would say stay at home moms with a BS are a minority. This survey is for early career grads anyways most women don't get finish their degree and immediately have a kid rather than start working. In any case dual income families (especially nowadays) are more typical than the 1950's stay at home mom. Most of the out of labor market segment are not out by choice.
It's common for many women to stay at home for a couple years after having children. But then many of them do want to go back to work--but then they face employment difficulties such as discrimination for having been out of the field for so long, especially in competitive fields. It will also be assumed that they put family and children first and not the job first. Thus, it is quite possible that many stay at home moms are not staying at home by choice but by lack of career opportunities. It also helps if their spouses are earning a good income.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,120 posts, read 8,068,811 times
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Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Anyhow, employment is weak across the country in almost every industry, not sure why you feel the need to point to weakness in a particular field as if the rest of the economy is doing just great.....
.....Because the media, intelligentsia, and politicians are pointing to STEM fields as a field that is not weak and the general populace needs to be made aware of the truth. If the promise of higher education and economic class mobility is the opiate of the masses, STEM is the flavor du jour of the opiate.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,120 posts, read 8,068,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tensne1 View Post
If you know that Asia's (including Japan's, Korea's, Taiwan's, and China's) middle schoolers (7th grade!) finesse what mainstream higher ed accreditation bodies in the U.S. call college algebra, raise your hand. If your hand is raised and you're still looking for reasons why the U.S. continues to lose manufacturing and personnel to other countries, then perhaps you did not study well enough. Luckily, there's still time...
Our engineers and scientists can go up just fine against the Koreans and Japanese, etc. Our top 5% is just as good as their top 5%. Who cares if the students who end up being our truck drivers and waitresses (etc.) can't do Algebra.

We're losing jobs due to an economic force few people understand called Global Labor Arbitrage. It has everything to do with wages and little to do with talent.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Monterey, CALIFORNIA
211 posts, read 373,421 times
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UMmm I got a degree in environmental engineering in 2009 and am very well employed as are most of my classmates I still keep in touch with.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:11 AM
 
505 posts, read 765,669 times
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STEM is very broad... Some areas have better employment prospects than others.

An Engineering undergrad degree is usually enough to get a decent job (provided you have decent internships, interpersonal skills etc.) Even within engineering, there is a big difference in prospects based on field. With a degree in Math or some of the sciences, many employers may be looking for a Master's or higher, and the choices may be more limited than Engineering. Technology is a broad field - some degrees in questionable fields or from questionable schools may not be very marketable.
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