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I just came across this provocative article which may be of interest: From Wall Street to Wal-Mart: Why College Graduates Are Not Getting Good Jobs. It was produced by The Center for College Affordability and Productivity.
Executive Summary: Colleges and universities are turning out graduates faster than America’s labor markets are creating jobs that traditionally have been reserved for those with degrees. More than one-third of current working graduates are in jobs that do not require a degree, and the proportion appears to be rising rapidly. Many of them are better described as “underemployed” rather than “gainfully employed.” Indeed, 60 percent of the increased college graduate population between 1992 and 2008 ended up in these lower skill jobs, raising real questions about the desirability of pushing to increase the proportion of Americans attending and graduating from four year colleges and universities. This, along with other evidence on the negative relationship between government higher education spending and economic growth, suggests we may have significantly “over invested” public funds in colleges and universities.
(Emphasis mine)
(I know I haven't responded to posts in the other threads; I'm hoping to have time to do that this weekend or sometime next week.)
I find the part about how 60% of the increased college grad population between 1992 and 2008 ended up doing jobs that don't require a college education rather interesting. It really casts doubt on the old, stale studies that purport to show that college graduates earn much more money over their lifetimes than high school graduates. (If they're working jobs that high school graduates can work, that old claim just doesn't seem to make much sense.) For some time I have been saying that "past performance is not a guarantee of future results" and that thus it's illegitimate to judge the current value of a college degree based on the outcomes of people who graduates in the Fifties, Sixties, Seventies, and Eighties, and even the Nineties.
This is a great essay and I wish that all of our politicians, media elite, and academics would read it.
Last edited by Bhaalspawn; 02-21-2011 at 02:33 PM..
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The only way to accurately record the difference in lifetime earnings between a graduate/non-graduate is to study data over many years. We won't know if that has changed for another 20 years.
When the U.S. job market shifted from agricultural to manufacturing then to high-tech and service, a college degree became more important and for people working good jobs these days that degree has been important. The result is that every parent wanted their kid to go to college, so more were built, others were expanded, student loan programs were set up. Already a few years before this current economic crisis there were many more graduates than good jobs. Now, those getting out of college are competing with people have a lot of experience, even for entry level jobs.
I'd hate to be the banks that are making all the student loans. It'sard to pay back $50-100k on fast food salaries. Oh wait, those are federally insured loans, so I guess we'll all be paying one way or another.
I'd hate to be the banks that are making all the student loans. It'sard to pay back $50-100k on fast food salaries. Oh wait, those are federally insured loans, so I guess we'll all be paying one way or another.
Those loans are all non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. If someone only earns a menial income they still have to pay the loans and are essentially "educated indentured servants". Money could even be withdrawn decades later from measly Social Security checks to pay for them. It's possible that some people just will not be able to pay for them or might not have any wages to garnish. Some people have even contemplated fleeing the United States to escape student loan slavery.
Prof. Vedder also has a blog that might be of interest:
I find the part about how 60% of the increased college grad population between 1992 and 2008 ended up doing jobs that don't require a college education rather interesting. It really casts doubt on the old, stale studies that purport to show that college graduates earn much more money over their lifetimes than high school graduates. (If they're working jobs that high school graduates can work, that old claim just doesn't seem to make much sense.) For some time I have been saying that "past performance is not a guarantee of future results" and that thus it's illegitimate to judge the current value of a college degree based on the outcomes of people who graduates in the Fifties, Sixties, Seventies, and Eighties, and even the Nineties.
This is a great essay and I wish that all of our politicians, media elite, and academics would read it.
I didn't go to college to get a job, I went to get an education. I think if you look at only the monetary value of a degree you over looking the real purpose higher education.
I find the part about how 60% of the increased college grad population between 1992 and 2008 ended up doing jobs that don't require a college education rather interesting. It really casts doubt on the old, stale studies that purport to show that college graduates earn much more money over their lifetimes than high school graduates.
Not really. Many of those studies are much longer term than just the last decade or two; they point to an overall long-term historical dichotomy between white collar and blue collar jobs which is really indisputable.
That said, recent trends may be counteracting this historical trend. If it keeps going this way, then I'd agree that you may start to see different results in future studies.
I still think that people who excel in the achievement of in-demand degrees from reputable schools will have a distinct advantage over high school dropouts. As for other underachievers studying "literature" from an online for-profit "college"...well, no, they won't find white collar jobs. That may be the bigger difference these days.
Some people have even contemplated fleeing the United States to escape student loan slavery.
sounds realistic to me. thing is, when there's tons of competition, grads need to learn how to 'stand out' from the herd in tangible ways (not via a 'bubbly personality', etc), otherwise they're seen as a dime-a-dozen. when they sit down with headhunters or companies, they fail to realize the questions are often deep-down probing for 'what the heck makes you different from all the other schmoes i'm scheduled to see later today?' of course it's worded politely as 'so tell me about yourself.' and if a blah grad isn't sharp enough to read between the lines, then the blah vibe lingers in the interview as the interviewer counts down the seconds to the end of the interview ('oh boy. i'm not impressed with this one. um, give it another minute to be nice. ... tick tock tick tock.') of course some jobs exist where they actually want you to be blah, but personally those jobs are not my cup of tea.
As of 2009, baby boomers made 28% of the population. That is about 68.2 million people. Of these 68.2 million people, as of 2009, about 50.4 million were working. Obviously, as a generation, they dominate the job market. As they exit the job market, things should get better as time progresses.
As of 2009, baby boomers made 28% of the population. That is about 68.2 million people. Of these 68.2 million people, as of 2009, about 50.4 million were working. Obviously, as a generation, they dominate the job market. As they exit the job market, things should get better as time progresses.
Another way Wall Street screwed us over, if all the baby boomers had their retirement savings that they had before the market crash, there would be more early retirements or just plain retirements!
There unemployemnt rate is less than half the non-degreed now. That is with mnay gettign degreees that are not wanted i the market palces;so many are having no problems get a good job.
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That may be the bigger difference these days.
