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I understand this is what you think or want, but it is irrelevant to reality. No teams in the Big 12 have expressed interest in this. Texas is happy with its situation. If you have proof otherwise show it. Right now everyone is talking how the ACC is the weakest conference and could be raided.
Your market theory is irrelevant. The ACC tried that and it failed. Likewise the SEC gets its audience from the rural south, and not major urban areas, like ALabama. If having big markets mattered the ACC would be making money. That is due to competition with pro teams. Right now Big 12 teams are making more money than most other schools, including PAC. They also have stronger football than any conference except the SEC. The weakest conference arguable has the best market in the US. The ACC. They control all of NE corridor from Boston to NC, and then big markets in Florida. PAC controls everything west of the rockies and doesnt make that much. I understand the logic you are using, but it is irrelevant to how they are actually paid.
Now I am not saying the ACC will be raided. It is up to the 3 conferences who will do so. If they want to expand into the ACC they can. That doesnt mean they will.
are you suggesting that market issues isn't the main reason for all the conference musical chairs business? I'm in Chicago, the heart of Big Ten country, and the media here in the midwest has made it clear that the Rutgers/Maryland move involved gaining eastern markets. the Big Ten was very much thinking in terms of NYC, Philly, Bal-Wash.
Do I like it? No. But that was their thinking, not mine.
also, keep the following in mind: the Big 12 came into existence with markets being the main consideration. The old SWC was torn apart by scandals that touched every member save for Rice. That gave UT and the other Texas schools the chance to set up a new conference because they feared that being a Texas only conference (Ark had already left) would hurt them nationally. The Big 8 also made the merger move due to markets. It had among the fewest in the nation with StL, KC, and Den, and none were true major players. Marketing is what made the Big 12 from the get go.
are you suggesting that market issues isn't the main reason for all the conference musical chairs business? I'm in Chicago, the heart of Big Ten country, and the media here in the midwest has made it clear that the Rutgers/Maryland move involved gaining eastern markets. the Big Ten was very much thinking in terms of NYC, Philly, Bal-Wash.
Do I like it? No. But that was their thinking, not mine.
also, keep the following in mind: the Big 12 came into existence with markets being the main consideration. The old SWC was torn apart by scandals that touched every member save for Rice. That gave UT and the other Texas schools the chance to set up a new conference because they feared that being a Texas only conference (Ark had already left) would hurt them nationally. The Big 8 also made the merger move due to markets. It had among the fewest in the nation with StL, KC, and Den, and none were true major players. Marketing is what made the Big 12 from the get go.
Yes, market is not and money is. Being in a big market doesn't mean you make money. Case in point is ACC. Likewise being in a small market you can make lots of money like the SEC.
Yes, market is not and money is. Being in a big market doesn't mean you make money. Case in point is ACC. Likewise being in a small market you can make lots of money like the SEC.
the SEC definitely proves that market is not everything. or, then again, maybe it doesn't. football is a religion in SEC country and traditionally, it hasn't been an area rich in NFL teams. So a greater percent of the population is tuned into college football which pays off big time for the conference on the networks.
the counter point to that is that a huge market (i.e. NYC) that isn't a college football hotbed becomes an attraction due to the shear numbers which, even if they yield a small percent of the watching public still represent a huge number.
point is though, the conferences are influenced by that market size. I'm not saying I'm happy about it (the Big Ten used to be a wonderful and meaningful group of great midwestern universities which has lost an awful lot, IMHO, due to its spread from Nebraska to New Jersey. of the recent arrivals, UNL had nothing to do with demographics and had everything to do with being a marquis football program. but I know from what has been written about the Maryland/Rutgers expansion it was based on the size of eastern markets. The Big Ten has been upfront about that being the motivation.
that hardly negates your idea that the Big 12 is doing fine financially, but it does speak to the motivation that has influenced why a number of conferences have expanded. Market share has been a motivator. does it pay off? heck if I know; i'm merely talking about motivation. hey, the jury is still way, way out on whether the Maryland/Rutgers move was a good one (and it very well may not have been).
the SEC definitely proves that market is not everything. or, then again, maybe it doesn't. football is a religion in SEC country and traditionally, it hasn't been an area rich in NFL teams. So a greater percent of the population is tuned into college football which pays off big time for the conference on the networks.
the counter point to that is that a huge market (i.e. NYC) that isn't a college football hotbed becomes an attraction due to the shear numbers which, even if they yield a small percent of the watching public still represent a huge number.
point is though, the conferences are influenced by that market size. I'm not saying I'm happy about it (the Big Ten used to be a wonderful and meaningful group of great midwestern universities which has lost an awful lot, IMHO, due to its spread from Nebraska to New Jersey. of the recent arrivals, UNL had nothing to do with demographics and had everything to do with being a marquis football program. but I know from what has been written about the Maryland/Rutgers expansion it was based on the size of eastern markets. The Big Ten has been upfront about that being the motivation.
that hardly negates your idea that the Big 12 is doing fine financially, but it does speak to the motivation that has influenced why a number of conferences have expanded. Market share has been a motivator. does it pay off? heck if I know; i'm merely talking about motivation. hey, the jury is still way, way out on whether the Maryland/Rutgers move was a good one (and it very well may not have been).
Yes, it is all about money and the Big 12 is doing fine. In fact teams left the Big 12 because UT led the charge to equalize revenue instead of creating disparities. This was to strengthen the conference.
The poorest conference still considered legit is the ACC. that is why they are vulnerable. They hold the best markets, but dont have a fanbase, nor do they make money.
Yes, it is all about money and the Big 12 is doing fine. In fact teams left the Big 12 because UT led the charge to equalize revenue instead of creating disparities. This was to strengthen the conference.
The poorest conference still considered legit is the ACC. that is why they are vulnerable. They hold the best markets, but dont have a fanbase, nor do they make money.
football rules the game. but one can't deny that it is basketball that gives the ACC incredible credibility. basketball is a part of the mix that determines who is going to be in a conference; not like football, but the influence is there.
it is basketball that makes KU attractive to a conference.
cry, we go back and forth on this one. i don't think you get my point: i actually agree with you about the Big 12's viability as a conference. but i'm thinking that isn't going to be relevant (like it should be) on this issue. I do think that the Big 12's central location makes it more vulnerable than the ACC. The Big 12 is far easier to split up and it also has much more of a history of instability with members leaving than the ACC. UNL, Mizzou, CU, and A&M set a precident, in a way that no other conference among the top five have.
Decisions that are made are not always, in fact frequently, not in the best interest for the organization.
I live in Chicago. A number of years back, Macy's came into town with its new ownership of Marshall Field's, Chicago's iconic department store, and the new guys reverted all of Field's stores in Chicago to Macy's. It has been a disaster for the company here in Chicago, losing that fame name and beloved store and Macy's doesn't do nearly as well here as it could have by keeping these stores Field's. But Macy's did get what it wanted: a bunch of new stores in a major, major market that could all be folded under one advertising campaign.
It's not the way things should have worked out, by a long shot. but it did. I suspect (and again, "suspect" is the operative word; I could be wrong) that the Big 12 will be the sacrificial lamb on this one. Not hoping my any means, just suspecting.
but i'll be happy if you're right and both the ACC and the Big 12 survive.
Decisions that are made are not always, in fact frequently, not in the best interest for the organization
I live in Chicago. A number of years back, Macy's came into town with its new ownership of Marshall Field's, Chicago's iconic department store, and the new guys reverted all of Field's stores in Chicago to Macy's. It has been a disaster for the company here in Chicago, losing that fame name and beloved store and Macy's doesn't do nearly as well here as it could have by keeping these stores Field's. But Macy's did get what it wanted: a bunch of new stores in a major, major market that could all be folded under one advertising campaign.
I worked for Macy's IT Dept during the acquisition and conversion of the May Company stores which includes Marshall Fields... I think you may want to check the actual sales Macy's has in the Chicago area vs going by what you and people you know say. Because they have been VERY successful in the market. And they have managed to rebrand the name. In 10 years there will be a whole new generation who will not even know the Marshall Fields name. Macy's has done a good job of figuring out aggregated growth.
Actually Federated's decision to change all of its store names besides Bloomy's to the Macy's brand was the best decision that company has made. The company has had nothing but positive results since... I do not work for them anymore but I had to chime in on this because I worked for them for a dozen years.
***now back to your regularly scheduled program***
I worked for Macy's IT Dept during the acquisition and conversion of the May Company stores which includes Marshall Fields... I think you may want to check the actual sales Macy's has in the Chicago area vs going by what you and people you know say. Because they have been VERY successful in the market. And they have managed to rebrand the name. In 10 years there will be a whole new generation who will not even know the Marshall Fields name. Macy's has done a good job of figuring out aggregated growth.
Actually Federated's decision to change all of its store names besides Bloomy's to the Macy's brand was the best decision that company has made. The company has had nothing but positive results since... I do not work for them anymore but I had to chime in on this because I worked for them for a dozen years.
***now back to your regularly scheduled program***
Rebranded so well that people still will not step foot in a Macy's since 2005.
This isn't even right after the acquisition where sales were way down:
football rules the game. but one can't deny that it is basketball that gives the ACC incredible credibility. basketball is a part of the mix that determines who is going to be in a conference; not like football, but the influence is there.
it is basketball that makes KU attractive to a conference.
cry, we go back and forth on this one. i don't think you get my point: i actually agree with you about the Big 12's viability as a conference. but i'm thinking that isn't going to be relevant (like it should be) on this issue. I do think that the Big 12's central location makes it more vulnerable than the ACC. The Big 12 is far easier to split up and it also has much more of a history of instability with members leaving than the ACC. UNL, Mizzou, CU, and A&M set a precident, in a way that no other conference among the top five have.
Decisions that are made are not always, in fact frequently, not in the best interest for the organization.
I live in Chicago. A number of years back, Macy's came into town with its new ownership of Marshall Field's, Chicago's iconic department store, and the new guys reverted all of Field's stores in Chicago to Macy's. It has been a disaster for the company here in Chicago, losing that fame name and beloved store and Macy's doesn't do nearly as well here as it could have by keeping these stores Field's. But Macy's did get what it wanted: a bunch of new stores in a major, major market that could all be folded under one advertising campaign.
It's not the way things should have worked out, by a long shot. but it did. I suspect (and again, "suspect" is the operative word; I could be wrong) that the Big 12 will be the sacrificial lamb on this one. Not hoping my any means, just suspecting.
but i'll be happy if you're right and both the ACC and the Big 12 survive.
Basketball is secondary. It brings in pennies to the dollars football brings in.
In the 21st century distance and geography dont matter, neither does history. Money does. CB is a minor NFL. There is big money money involved and lots of talents.
Basketball is secondary. It brings in pennies to the dollars football brings in.
In the 21st century distance and geography dont matter, neither does history. Money does. CB is a minor NFL. There is big money money involved and lots of talents.
The only BCS conference Hawai'i would join would be the Pac 12.
The only BCS conference Hawai'i would join would be the Pac 12.
If they added enough money, after taking into account travel cost, than yes.
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