Sometimes Clevelanders Are Their Own Worst Enemy?

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by QCongress83216

Some Clevelanders don't know how to do that because a lot of them constantly try to compare it to NY, L.A., Chicago, Atlanta or the Carolinas. Also, a lot of NYers have an arrogance about their city and some even have an arrogance about themselves because they live in NY and feel they're more worldy than people from other places. Cleveland has more detractors than boosters from the inside while those other cities have more boosters than detractors from the inside. Even in cities in the South have a lot more boosters, rarely people in the South criticize where they live. Some of them are such big boosters, you would think they were working for the Chamber of Commerce.

It's funny because obviously, it isn't that large. For its size, it packs a lot of what anyone wants in a city. From Arts and culture to sports, food, amusement parks, and natural beauty.

The South to me has relatively little to boast about, but they never shut up! Ugly subdivisions with enormous, cheaply built houses build shoulder to shoulder on postage stamp size lots. Bad food. Chains. No cultural diversity and a proliferation of megachurches, violence, and a lack of interest in culture, history or education.

A southern friend said it's a hostile place to new commers, anyone who is different, creative or irreligious.

There is an interesting book that I recommend to everyone. It explains why Ohio reminds me more of New England than PA does. I was miserable in Pennsylvania.

Albion's Seed, by David Hackett Fischer. It's worth reading for anyone seeking to understand the huge cultural divide that is ove taking our country.

It was always there, but now with the internet, more frequent travel, and a generally more mobile society, the vast differenes are glaring. Because of cultural factors, Southerners and much more likely to boasat than those from the upper Midwest, New England and down state NY.

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by sheena12

A southern friend said it's a hostile place to new commers, anyone who is different, creative or irreligious.

I live in the Southwest now, and I absolutely think this comment about the South applies to many of the small towns in the Southwest. Very Catholic, church and "family" drives everything and everything else suffers, closed-off and distrusting to Eastern outsiders.
Few invites to dinner or social events from any of the locals. The out-of-towners therefore have support groups and try to pull the locals in, and none of them accepts.
It was all very surprising to me. Everyone is nice, but no one wants to pull you in outside of work hours, for example.
The creative people in the Southwest (jewelers, artisans, artists, etc) are also divided in this way, and very little collaboration or true friendship exists outside of the niche groups and the local vs. outsider thing is strong in this regard also.
In contrast, my experience with Cleveland was always a melting pot of different, and differing, friends and neighbors and coworkers. I miss that.

[TheProf]

I will agree with QCongress to the extent that, sometimes, it takes thoughtful out-of-towners, like Sheena12, to come to town and enlighten Clevelanders to the many benefits of their own hometown. There is a class of Cleveland individuals who sit at home and cry the Cleveland is boring and there's nothing to do here.

Thankfully, though, this crowd has greatly shrunk over the years. They tended to dominate in the 1980s, when few folks lived downtown or ventured there after hours, and the streets, esp Euclid were dead as a doornail.

But this has radically changed. I find a buzz downtown, even during weekdays, and Fridays and Saturdays are off the hook. And then, just hop across the Cuyahoga River to Ohio City, which is tantamount to a sub-downtown; packed with energy and foot traffic most days of the week, especially Saturdays, when the WSM is jam packed.

This is demonstrable evidence that the local naysayers are losing out. Because the masses are voting otherwise with their feet.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

I live in the Southwest now, and I absolutely think this comment about the South applies to many of the small towns in the Southwest. Very Catholic, church and "family" drives everything and everything else suffers, closed-off and distrusting to Eastern outsiders.
Few invites to dinner or social events from any of the locals. The out-of-towners therefore have support groups and try to pull the locals in, and none of them accepts.
It was all very surprising to me. Everyone is nice, but no one wants to pull you in outside of work hours, for example.
The creative people in the Southwest (jewelers, artisans, artists, etc) are also divided in this way, and very little collaboration or true friendship exists outside of the niche groups and the local vs. outsider thing is strong in this regard also.
In contrast, my experience with Cleveland was always a melting pot of different, and differing, friends and neighbors and coworkers. I miss that.

Plus one.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I will agree with QCongress to the extent that, sometimes, it takes thoughtful out-of-towners, like Sheena12, to come to town and enlighten Clevelanders to the many benefits of their own hometown. There is a class of Cleveland individuals who sit at home and cry the Cleveland is boring and there's nothing to do here.

Thankfully, though, this crowd has greatly shrunk over the years. They tended to dominate in the 1980s, when few folks lived downtown or ventured there after hours, and the streets, esp Euclid were dead as a doornail.

But this has radically changed. I find a buzz downtown, even during weekdays, and Fridays and Saturdays are off the hook. And then, just hop across the Cuyahoga River to Ohio City, which is tantamount to a sub-downtown; packed with energy and foot traffic most days of the week, especially Saturdays, when the WSM is jam packed.

This is demonstrable evidence that the local naysayers are losing out. Because the masses are voting otherwise with their feet.

I say what I see. Cleveland has a "buzz". A human vibration, that without sounding overly "wooo wooo", spiritual, or just nutty, can be felt by anyone who enters a vibrant city.

Here is an example of a buzz free blah city that appears to be idolized by displaced North Easterners - CHARLOTT NC. That place is literally a shopping mall - not a city.
It's not near a body of water. BIG DOWNSIDE to me. It has a university - Queen's University, that strikes me as unremarkable.

I'd take Worcester Massachusetts, or Rochester NY over Charlotte.

So much of this is racially driven. Plus 1 Prof.

[QCongress83216]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I will agree with QCongress to the extent that, sometimes, it takes thoughtful out-of-towners, like Sheena12, to come to town and enlighten Clevelanders to the many benefits of their own hometown. There is a class of Cleveland individuals who sit at home and cry the Cleveland is boring and there's nothing to do here.

Thankfully, though, this crowd has greatly shrunk over the years. They tended to dominate in the 1980s, when few folks lived downtown or ventured there after hours, and the streets, esp Euclid were dead as a doornail.

But this has radically changed. I find a buzz downtown, even during weekdays, and Fridays and Saturdays are off the hook. And then, just hop across the Cuyahoga River to Ohio City, which is tantamount to a sub-downtown; packed with energy and foot traffic most days of the week, especially Saturdays, when the WSM is jam packed.

This is demonstrable evidence that the local naysayers are losing out. Because the masses are voting otherwise with their feet.

Some good points. Yeah, that crowd may has shrunk over the last couple decades. Most of the suburbanites still bash Cleveland.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by sheena12

Ask your average Long Islander when the last time they went to a museum, saw a Broadway Show, or visited the statue of Liberty.

It will probably be when they had out of town guests. It's true of every city. And every suburb. I think it's laziness more than provincialism.

I don't think it's even laziness. When you have a world class attraction in your backyard..."Yea, I'll get there..."
Hell, I was 30 before I hit the HoF in Canton. For that exact reason.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by QCongress83216

Some Clevelanders don't know how to do that because a lot of them constantly try to compare it to NY, L.A., Chicago, Atlanta or the Carolinas. Also, a lot of NYers have an arrogance about their city and some even have an arrogance about themselves because they live in NY and feel they're more worldy than people from other places. Cleveland has more detractors than boosters from the inside while those other cities have more boosters than detractors from the inside. Even in cities in the South have a lot more boosters, rarely people in the South criticize where they live. Some of them are such big boosters, you would think they were working for the Chamber of Commerce.

I don't understand it. People brag about cities in the sunbelt with awful Summer, Spring and Fall weather. AND little to offer. They brag about cities plopped in the middle of treeless deserts that have no water.

How do they NOT see the beauty, culture, and convenience of Cleveland?

AND I HATE those "Stuck in Ohio" bumper stickers.