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I ride the Health Line every day, and riders do often enter through the rear doors, then must proceed to the front to pay their fares. Most often in the downtown area, but sometimes at other points, too.
OK got it; so the bus leaves the stop before fares are verified? When I used it, one could just enter the rear door and take a seat and keep your fare card handy in case cops randomly checked it. I liked using CLE's BRT line.
OK got it; so the bus leaves the stop before fares are verified? When I used it, one could just enter the rear door and take a seat and keep your fare card handy in case cops randomly checked it. I liked using CLE's BRT line.
I don't know the exact details but apparently, an African American young man got thrown off a Healthline bus (and I believe ticketed and/or arrested) years ago during an RTA cop ticket check -- the young man argued the ticket machine where he boarded was broken but to no avail. He brought a lawsuit and the judge ruled his civil rights were violated and RTA dropped the proof-of-purchase (POP) program, reverting back to a farebox operation parallel to other regular buses and this, plus the non-signal prioritization, has slowed the HL to the days when it was a regular bus (the No. 6)... This was just more Calabrese-inspired poor planning; armed cops should have never done ticket enforcement in the first place...
... the good news is RTA has rolled out a plan to inspect tickets with unarmed goodwill ambassadors instead of the RTA cops, and I believe these ambassadors do not have the authority to arrest anybody. When this goes into effect, the POP system will return meaning no farebox fares during daytime hours and this should speed HL BRT buses.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf
I don't know the exact details but apparently, an African American young man got thrown off a Healthline bus (and I believe ticketed and/or arrested) years ago during an RTA cop ticket check -- the young man argued the ticket machine where he boarded was broken but to no avail. He brought a lawsuit and the judge ruled his civil rights were violated and RTA dropped the proof-of-purchase (POP) program, reverting back to a farebox operation parallel to other regular buses and this, plus the non-signal prioritization, has slowed the HL to the days when it was a regular bus (the No. 6)...
I find the HL to be pretty fast. To me it's like riding an express bus. I don't think it makes as many stops as the #6 did.
Regarding POP vs paying-on-board, going cashless and switching to a smart fare card pretty much makes it a non-issue. I was a transit rider in Pittsburgh when they made the switch, and it sounds like a small thing, but speeding up the boarding and deboarding of passengers really adds up over the course of a bus ride.
It also keeps overall traffic flowing better, because the bus isn't blocking the traffic lane for as long.
I haven't been on the health line in about a year since I left downtown, but it really wasn't too bad, especially since it had good frequency and hours. Although I'd not oppose any efforts to make it even quicker and easier.
I took the Waterfront Line to the Rock Hall when I visited back in 2013. On the trip there, no one but my family were on the car. On the return, only one other passenger was on. East 9th Street station looked to have once working turnstiles and a manned booth but those fell into disuse I guess and all fare collection is on board. To me as an urban planner, all of it looked like a "build it and they will come" piece of work. It was greatly convenient I'd admit and has potential but perhaps ahead of significant economic growth on the Waterfront that has not happened yet. Rail lines are infrastructure after all, you have to pay to upkeep it and running a rail line that does not generate enough revenue from enough ridership seems like a waste.
I took the Waterfront Line to the Rock Hall when I visited back in 2013. On the trip there, no one but my family were on the car. On the return, only one other passenger was on. East 9th Street station looked to have once working turnstiles and a manned booth but those fell into disuse I guess and all fare collection is on board. To me as an urban planner, all of it looked like a "build it and they will come" piece of work. It was greatly convenient I'd admit and has potential but perhaps ahead of significant economic growth on the Waterfront that has not happened yet. Rail lines are infrastructure after all, you have to pay to upkeep it and running a rail line that does not generate enough revenue from enough ridership seems like a waste.
It was mostly used during Browns games and pretty much never any other time. The station by the rock hall is kinda useless because most people visiting the rock hall are staying nearby anyway and it's easier to just walk it. The most useful station is the Flats East Bank station, it is nearby all the hot spots in the Flats. However, a problem with that is that there is still also massive parking there and the hours aren't late enough.
If that line could extend down already existing track to Collinwood/Euclid and also be a commuter line, that would be awesome, but it will never happen.
It was mostly used during Browns games and pretty much never any other time. The station by the rock hall is kinda useless because most people visiting the rock hall are staying nearby anyway and it's easier to just walk it. The most useful station is the Flats East Bank station, it is nearby all the hot spots in the Flats. However, a problem with that is that there is still also massive parking there and the hours aren't late enough.
Agree totally, and as I have said: the powers that be (RTA + City pols and planners) have failed the Waterfront Line (WFL) in not building serious development near the line: ie the apts, retail etc at the Muny Lots; the long-discussed but never built World Trade Center in the area of the Port Authority -- where there was talk of relocating to the West or East along the Lake. In the space where the WFL elevates then levels off on the wide loop (after crossing Front Ave & the RR tracks), the embankment widens for a future station. When the World Trade Center idea was scuttled, a new proposal came about developing high-density housing at that location... Today? Still a vast empty space and some Port Authority buildings and equipment.
... and yes, Flats East Bank is a well-located station given the activity there, but will India Birdsong's RTA finally have the wear with all to run WFL trains when FEB restaurants, bars and clubs are packed? And just because there is convenient parking (that fills up quickly on weekends), should RTA simply concede that people won't ride just because of this despite the already-built high-quality, existing transit infrastructure? REPEATED FOOTNOTE: in the late 1990s during the 'old' Flats when the WFL was new, they were running trains (often 2-cars) well into the night (to 2a on summer weekends), and lots of folks were riding, despite all the available parking.
Once again: RTA has the quality infrastructure; the problem is it's not being used right nor is the city helping in developing TOD around the WFL as it should. As I've long said, practically any city would give their collective eye-teeth to have the kind of connection we have: traffic-free rapid rail from the downtown hub directly to the hot, waterfront destination... but what do we do here? Ignore it. Poke fun at it (PD's front page "Ghost Train" piece). Even, earlier this year, talk of converting the WFL to an urban walking trail extending the Towpath...
Only in Cleveland...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24
If that line could extend down already existing track to Collinwood/Euclid and also be a commuter line, that would be awesome, but it will never happen.
At one time I was gun-ho for this extension, but I've cooled a bit after examining the area. Yes, there is a growing cluster of apartments at E. 55, but that's pretty much it until you get to Collinwood. Until that changes (and you know how long development takes in Cleveland), you would have a situation similar to the Red Line's East Side branch -- low populated, post-industrial interior areas with a few clusters of density (ie Univ. Circle/Little Italy and Stokes-Windermere) on the outer portion.
To me, the better extension is what was proposed, but not taken seriously, under Calabrese: extending the Red Line to Babbitt Road in Euclid. For one thing, it would be shorter than the WFL, but more importantly, it would provide fast, direct 1-seat train service from Collinwood (South), Euclid and western Lake County to Cleveland's 3 downtowns: University Circle, the main downtown and Ohio City ... not to mention the Airport.
That said, I do like the idea of running traditional commuter trains along the lakefront over the existing tracks, as you noted, through Collinwood-Euclid, Lake County ... all the way to Painesville ... and even beyond to Ashtabula or Conneaut.
Agree totally, and as I have said: the powers that be (RTA + City pols and planners) have failed the Waterfront Line (WFL) in not building serious development near the line: ie the apts, retail etc at the Muny Lots; the long-discussed but never built World Trade Center in the area of the Port Authority -- where there was talk of relocating to the West or East along the Lake. In the space where the WFL elevates then levels off on the wide loop (after crossing Front Ave & the RR tracks), the embankment widens for a future station. When the World Trade Center idea was scuttled, a new proposal came about developing high-density housing at that location... Today? Still a vast empty space and some Port Authority buildings and equipment.
... and yes, Flats East Bank is a well-located station given the activity there, but will India Birdsong's RTA finally have the wear with all to run WFL trains when FEB restaurants, bars and clubs are packed? And just because there is convenient parking (that fills up quickly on weekends), should RTA simply concede that people won't ride just because of this despite the already-built high-quality, existing transit infrastructure? REPEATED FOOTNOTE: in the late 1990s during the 'old' Flats when the WFL was new, they were running trains (often 2-cars) well into the night (to 2a on summer weekends), and lots of folks were riding, despite all the available parking.
Once again: RTA has the quality infrastructure; the problem is it's not being used right nor is the city helping in developing TOD around the WFL as it should. As I've long said, practically any city would give their collective eye-teeth to have the kind of connection we have: traffic-free rapid rail from the downtown hub directly to the hot, waterfront destination... but what do we do here? Ignore it. Poke fun at it (PD's front page "Ghost Train" piece). Even, earlier this year, talk of converting the WFL to an urban walking trail extending the Towpath...
Only in Cleveland...
At one time I was gun-ho for this extension, but I've cooled a bit after examining the area. Yes, there is a growing cluster of apartments at E. 55, but that's pretty much it until you get to Collinwood. Until that changes (and you know how long development takes in Cleveland), you would have a situation similar to the Red Line's East Side branch -- low populated, post-industrial interior areas with a few clusters of density (ie Univ. Circle/Little Italy and Stokes-Windermere) on the outer portion.
To me, the better extension is what was proposed, but not taken seriously, under Calabrese: extending the Red Line to Babbitt Road in Euclid. For one thing, it would be shorter than the WFL, but more importantly, it would provide fast, direct 1-seat train service from Collinwood (South), Euclid and western Lake County to Cleveland's 3 downtowns: University Circle, the main downtown and Ohio City ... not to mention the Airport.
That said, I do like the idea of running traditional commuter trains along the lakefront over the existing tracks, as you noted, through Collinwood-Euclid, Lake County ... all the way to Painesville ... and even beyond to Ashtabula or Conneaut.
This sounds good to me, we can have passangers picked up in 2 stops in Euclid, 2 stops in Collinwood and then go directly downtown, priobably in like 20 minutes tops. Would be great for these areas imo.
But RTA currently has no reasonable direct service to downtown Cleveland through Collinwood or Euclid. The 1 down St Clair? That will be an hour. Buses down Lakeshore downtown take me about 45 minutes because of the insane route. Oh and only operational during weekday rush hours!!! Other wise you have to take a bus to Windermere to get on the red line. Another hour plus trip. For the record, I can be downtown in 15 minutes from my house driving. And who exactly wants to be at Windermere after dark? Let alone after midnight? For these reasons, I continue to drive, the transit options here are miserable. But they really don't have to be. The only good route nearby picks up right by my house and goes to University Circle (105th) and is 24/7. Though it still takes 2x the time as driving and after rush hours the frequency is awful (at night it's once an hour, which really doens't help much) and as has been mentioned on here before, parking in UC is actually not that bad. There are a few streets where basically nobody ever parks and are always open.
This sounds good to me, we can have passangers picked up in 2 stops in Euclid, 2 stops in Collinwood and then go directly downtown, priobably in like 20 minutes tops. Would be great for these areas imo.
But RTA currently has no reasonable direct service to downtown Cleveland through Collinwood or Euclid. The 1 down St Clair? That will be an hour. Buses down Lakeshore downtown take me about 45 minutes because of the insane route. Oh and only operational during weekday rush hours!!! Other wise you have to take a bus to Windermere to get on the red line. Another hour plus trip. For the record, I can be downtown in 15 minutes from my house driving. And who exactly wants to be at Windermere after dark? Let alone after midnight? For these reasons, I continue to drive, the transit options here are miserable. But they really don't have to be. The only good route nearby picks up right by my house and goes to University Circle (105th) and is 24/7. Though it still takes 2x the time as driving and after rush hours the frequency is awful (at night it's once an hour, which really doens't help much) and as has been mentioned on here before, parking in UC is actually not that bad. There are a few streets where basically nobody ever parks and are always open.
I hear you. The NE corridor of the city and suburbs is very well populated but with slow transit options that need to be improved. (I understand the new and improved RTA eliminated the Euclid park 'n ride freeway flyer down I-90/Shoreway... bummer).
... believe it or not, even with the East Cleveland location, the Stokes/Windermere station appears very secure and safe. For one thing, it is a hub for several buses connecting to the rapid, so it is usually busy. Also, it is a driver stopover and lounge for bus and rapid operators, so RTA personnel are usually present or coming and going. Plus the station itself -- which was rebuilt in the late 1990s, is a reasonably pleasant, clean environment. I've passed through there several times over the years including last summer (a friend and I parked at Uptown and caught the late Red Line train back, but did not relish the idea of getting off at Little Italy late a night and walking under that huge RR bridge to the car -- so we Red Lined it to Windermere then Healthline-d it back to the car which was parked on Euclid.
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