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I would fight against Providence simply on the fact it’s not really on its own merits a city easy to build a life in.
Got all the issues places like Buffalo, Hartford or Louisville have (especially Hartford) you really have an ability to get a real good job while for a good portion of the PVD metro area the answer is to commute to metro Boston and hang on their coattails.
Providence itself has fewer opportunities than its peers on paper.
I also feel culturally it gets overshadowed. Nobody outside New England knows anything about Providence for Buffalo, Louisville or Hartford I think that’s less true
While I can’t think of a city to kick Providence off the list I think it should be #50 because it’s clear cut above like Grand Rapids, Tulsa or Omaha
Hartford is less known than Providence. Culturally I hear about Providence as much as Louisville. Id also say Providence has significantly less crime or blight than those cities.
I think the Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Miami, Philadelphia, and Seattle grouping is fascinating to watch. It definitely seems to be the most competitive amongst these 6 depending on one's criteria for "importance" or global connectivity.
In particular, I know that some still have an inclination to "write off" Philadelphia for having more post-industrial baggage, but an unprecedented trend emerged in the past year that I don't think even the most ardent Philly boosters would have predicted: the Philly metro is now growing jobs on par with the Sun Belt/Big Tech heavyweights in this grouping.
From the latest BLS numbers (Dec. 2023) Rank by Year-over-Year Growth in Jobs/Percentage
Basically, I think the narrative about Philly definitely has not yet caught up with the reality of its new-found economic resurgence/momentum. And we're in a whole new era of climate change, cost-of-living, infrastructure needs, industry trends, and work/location models. We'll all have to see how these new trends unfold, but I think it's fair to say that it's no longer a foregone conclusion that growth will concentrate in the south and west of the US ad infinitum.
How exactly is Cincinnati distancing itself as the premier city in Ohio. You clearly aren't from Ohio.
I'm not, bit your response is exactly the engagement I'm looking for. I'm not from everywhere, so on places I have less knowledge of, this is the insight I want...
My thoughts on Cincinnati was that it's GDP continues to separate from the other two, and it has the largest MSA by nearly 100,000 people, and that if you add the Dayton area as part of Cincy's overall reach, it's about equal to Cleveland's in NEOh. If that's false, I'd love to know how Ohioans in '24 rank the big cities, because the only place in Ohio I've ever been was Cleveland...
Also, the three big cities, where would you rank them in national hierarchy as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KinBueno
Don't take the comments too negativity. You did an excellent job but people will have their biases and suggestions.
My dominant opinion about Dallas among the Southern big 4 was that what it has going for it was that it was two huge cities conveniently located near the center of US population so its all location, but DFW has gotten so far ahead of Miami and Atlanta in terms of population and economy that it is increasingly difficult for me to see those 2 ahead of DFW.
I don't see MSP ahead of Detroit yet. Detroit took decades of decline, but I haven't been hearing much about MSP rise. At its most generous boundaries, Detroit is still ahead of MSP AND Phoenix imo.
That was one that I had to read back when I first read it too. Although Cleveland lost the population advantage to me it is still clearly the big city in Ohio. Despite the population growth imo Columbus remains #3.
I don't take the criticism personal at all!
Yeah I just can't put MSP over Detroit yet. Once it catches Detroit's population I could go for it, but as of now I think MSP still loses both the population and relevance/importance battle...
Your read on Dallas makes sense, I just really think Atlanta has more strengths over Dallas than the other way around!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
Though I note that you separate out three core cities that would indeed be metropolitan centers in their own right were they not located where they were: Fort Worth, Newark, NJ, and Oakland.
I guess it's harder to separate out St. Paul? But in any case, separating these out means you really aren't measuring metro influence, since all of these are co-centers of metro areas with a more prominent core city in them (and that also distinguishes St. Paul from the others, for it and Minneapolis are roughly equal in population).
I would say that in terms of regional importance, Hartford outranks Providence, which sits in Boston's shadow.
As for the person who suggested replacing Providence with Omaha: Well, there is that sub-1m thing, but Omaha is sort of an oddity: it does have its own sphere of influence yet at the same time sort of orbits Kansas City 200 miles downriver. (My Mom was born in Omaha, and I've long referred to it as "Kansas City's little brother" — the Royals' Triple-A farm team plays there, and for three years, the two cities shared an NBA team until Kansas City completed a larger arena.)
I view St Paul and Minneapolis as essentially two sides of one city, just how I view Virginia Beach and Norfolk. These are unique scenarios though, because most "dual city" metros are miles apart, like DFW or Triangle NC. Norfolk and Virginia Beach share a border for 7½ miles, there are dozens of points to cross from one into the other and there is no discernible difference when crossing one into the other. People on both sides of the border partake in all the offerings either city has...
Granted, other than the airport I've never been to MSP but I imagine it has to be a similar dynamic there. So no, I don't them as separate cities in the way I view other dual metros...
I have a real problem with Omaha being ~185k short of any other city on this list, but that may just be me lol. Enough people like yourself are making the case that Omaha should be on America's Top 50!
I also appreciate the clarity on Hartford and Providence, that's not something I think those of us not from the area would realize even if we've been to both cities (as I have)!
No, I stated in my OP we're 10 months off the midpoint but honestly, we're still 41.7% thru the decade. And I'd probably forget to make the thread in December, so we're close enough...
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,547,924 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock
No, I stated in my OP we're 10 months off the midpoint but honestly, we're still 41.7% thru the decade. And I'd probably forget to make the thread in December, so we're close enough...
Cool beans. Probably the next 10 months won't see much movement with your rankings anyway, so that's fine.
We are 50 months into the 120-month 2020s, the period ranging from January 2020 to December 2029. Kinda crazy to believe we're almost halfway thru this decade...
But halfway thru, if I was creating an ad about the 50 most relevant, important, heavyweight cities, in a nation of thousands of interesting places and arguably the most popular and powerful country on the planet (certainly Top 3 by most respects), what would those 50 cities be?
If I was numbering them 1-50:
1 New York
2 Los Angeles
3 Chicago
4 Washington
5 San Francisco
6 Boston
7 Houston
8 Atlanta
9 Philadelphia
10 Miami
11 Dallas
12 Seattle
13 Phoenix
14 Detroit
15 Minneapolis
16 Denver
17 San Diego
18 Charlotte
19 Baltimore
20 Austin
21 St Louis
22 Tampa
23 Orlando
24 Portland
25 Pittsburgh
26 Las Vegas
27 San Jose
28 Nashville
29 Cincinnati
30 Oakland
31 Sacramento
32 San Antonio
33 Cleveland
34 Indianapolis
35 Kansas City
36 Columbus
37 Fort Worth
38 Newark
39 Salt Lake City
40 Milwaukee
41 Raleigh
42 Jacksonville
43 Richmond
44 New Orleans
45 Providence
46 Oklahoma City
47 Memphis
48 Louisville
49 Buffalo
50 Hartford
If I was tiering them:
I.
NY, (gap), LA
(gap) II.
Chi, DC, SF
(smaller gap) III.
Bean, HTX, ATL, Philly, Miami, DTX, Seattle
(Notable gap) IV.
Phx, Motown, MSP, Denver, SD
(Gap) V.
Clt, Bmore, ATX, StL, Tampa, Orlando, Pdx, Pgh, LV, SJ, Nash, Cincy, Oakland, Sac, SA
(Small gap) VI.
Cleveland, Indy, KC, Cbus, FW, Nwk, SLC
(Small gap) VII.
Mke, Rgh, Jax, RVA, Nola, PVD
(Small gap) VIII.
OKC, Memphis, Lou, Buff, Hartford
Thoughts on the best/worst performers of the 20s to date?
Miami and Philly aren't on the level of DFW and Houston. GDP and Fortune 500 companies put them way ahead.
Boston only gets in because of its Universities and Biotech.
Philly and Miami are next level down; Miami has global name recognition but GDP wise and corporation-wise, its a light weight as is much of Florida.
Move Austin up too, home to Oracle, Whole foods, Tesla, VMware, Dell, with huge operations there for Apple, Samsung, AMD. Tampa, Baltimore, SAC, SA or Charlotte aren't on that level.
Oakland sadly is a disaster and should be down with level VIII. I'd move Nashville up with ATX to join Level IV.
I don't disagree with an assertion Dallas is Top 10; someone has to be left out. My thing with Dallas, is it's core is just simply smaller and less developed than the cities ahead of it. I was in Dallas in August/September, its downtown and central core are relatively small. It's public transit isn't as robust, and I think Seattle is closing the gap on Dallas...
I'm not against Dallas as Top 10, though!
What does core have to do with ranking? Seattle is no where near closing the gap. DFW is 2x its size in population and in terms of Fortune 500 HQ, Seattle has like 6 companies - MSFT, Costco, Amazon, Expedia, Nordstrom, Starbucks. DFW has 24.
Robust public transit, well not compared to Mid-Atlantic, NE, the SF Bay area and Chicago but compared to any other Southern MSA (between DC and LA), the best road system, and will have its 8th rail line by end of 2025 plus two street car lines.
Connectivity - Now DFW can't compete for sea-going commercial business and Sea-Tac has gotten some kudos for its design but DFW is home to the biggest airline in the world, American and the one with the most domestic flights, Southwest. DFW airport is Top 5 busiest in the World and is building its 6th terminal.
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