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I have to admit, being from Michigan, this is generally how we view The North and The South.
Although, for anyone who has spent time in the Mid-Atlantic region, while Maryland, DC, and Virginia (Northern Virginia) are “technically” in The South, they definitely have an asterisk because they are not the traditional South in the way most people think of that region.
I admit that before I lived in Philly, I would not have known this (because prior to that I had only been to DC once as a young child). But going to college in Philly, I visited Baltimore, DC, and Northern Virginia several of times and they are not what I think of as “The South.” Although in fairness, they felt different to “The North” (Philly, NJ, and NYC. Which I am familiar with). So I think the best compromise is Mid Atlantic, even if they are technically in The South
Silver Spring, age-wise, developed its "downtown" sometime between Alexandria and Arlington/Bethesda. I remember seeing the Silver Theater on the main street just up from the B&O railroad station on a train I took from Washington to Chicago in 1970. It's an Art Deco gem, and at the time, it dominated Silver Spring's main street.
Now it almost gets lost among the mega-malls that surround it. Those shopping complexes also IMO drown out the office buildings.
The thing that ties Silver Spring, Arlington and Bethesda together is:
The arrival of Metro jump-started booms in each that dramatically transformed their appearance.
All of the communities we've been talking about around New York and Philadelphia have looked pretty much the way they do now for several decades, as they formed around the railroads when they were new, or in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. White Plains, the Westchester County seat, is the principal exception to this rule, as its downtown grew markedly after about 1970.
Most of the cities we're talking about around Boston were mill or factory towns that emerged in the 1830s, 1840s and 1850s. They were indeed separate cities from Boston, whose suburbs grew around them. Kendall Square in Cambridge's current form is of much more recent provenance — and it redeveloped many decades after the subway arrived there. Other factors account for its transformation.
I have to admit, being from Michigan, this is generally how we view The North and The South.
Although, for anyone who has spent time in the Mid-Atlantic region, while Maryland, DC, and Virginia (Northern Virginia) are “technically” in The South, they definitely have an asterisk because they are not the traditional South in the way most people think of that region.
I admit that before I lived in Philly, I would not have known this (because prior to that I had only been to DC once as a young child). But going to college in Philly, I visited Baltimore, DC, and Northern Virginia several of times and they are not what I think of as “The South.” Although in fairness, they felt different to “The North” (Philly, NJ, and NYC. Which I am familiar with). So I think the best compromise is Mid Atlantic, even if they are technically in The South
People need to change their narrow views of the south. There is not need for an asterisk because (only speaking for Baltimore) it is what it has always been. People do all kinds of mental gymnastics to get the world to fit into what views instead fitting their views into the world. That is one of the reasons why people don't consider Miami part of the south, because it doesn't fit nice and neatly into their view of the south. Maryland is the south, so don't expect it to function like a northern state would. Some posters are on a Fool's errand trying to convince themselves otherwise.
People need to change their narrow views of the south. There is not need for an asterisk because (only speaking for Baltimore) it is what it has always been. People do all kinds of mental gymnastics to get the world to fit into what views instead fitting their views into the world. That is one of the reasons why people don't consider Miami part of the south, because it doesn't fit nice and neatly into their view of the south. Maryland is the south, so don't expect it to function like a northern state would. Some posters are on a Fool's errand trying to convince themselves otherwise.
I think that two of the things that throw people off about Maryland and northern Virginia are the two big cities.
The culture of Washington, as I've noted already, is far from Southern — it's its own creature entirely, one shaped by the growth of the Federal government since World War II.
But while you can definitely pick up the Southern heritage and legacy in Baltimore, the city is industrial in a way no other Southern city comes close to matching (Birmingham maybe, but that's it). The stereotype of the Southern city is more genteel and (dare I say) sleepy than Baltimore. (Again, Atlanta and Charlotte now both defy this stereotype, but not in a way that makes them look or feel more like Baltimore.)
I think that two of the things that throw people off about Maryland and northern Virginia are the two big cities.
The culture of Washington, as I've noted already, is far from Southern — it's its own creature entirely, one shaped by the growth of the Federal government since World War II.
But while you can definitely pick up the Southern heritage and legacy in Baltimore, the city is industrial in a way no other Southern city comes close to matching (Birmingham maybe, but that's it). The stereotype of the Southern city is more genteel and (dare I say) sleepy than Baltimore. (Again, Atlanta and Charlotte now both defy this stereotype, but not in a way that makes them look or feel more like Baltimore.)
Changing radically after WWII is a Southern Characteristic. Like Charlotte and Atlanta. Even MARTA and WMRTA are sister networks funded by Carter
I think that two of the things that throw people off about Maryland and northern Virginia are the two big cities.
The culture of Washington, as I've noted already, is far from Southern — it's its own creature entirely, one shaped by the growth of the Federal government since World War II.
But while you can definitely pick up the Southern heritage and legacy in Baltimore, the city is industrial in a way no other Southern city comes close to matching (Birmingham maybe, but that's it). The stereotype of the Southern city is more genteel and (dare I say) sleepy than Baltimore. (Again, Atlanta and Charlotte now both defy this stereotype, but not in a way that makes them look or feel more like Baltimore.)
But what makes DC culture far from southern? Why can't its culture be an iteration of southern culture? Baltimore is an industrial southern city. Parts of NJ look it can fit right into SC somewhere and nobody could tell the difference, but people don't debate whether NJ is southern.
People need to change their narrow views of the south. There is not need for an asterisk because (only speaking for Baltimore) it is what it has always been. People do all kinds of mental gymnastics to get the world to fit into what views instead fitting their views into the world. That is one of the reasons why people don't consider Miami part of the south, because it doesn't fit nice and neatly into their view of the south. Maryland is the south, so don't expect it to function like a northern state would. Some posters are on a Fool's errand trying to convince themselves otherwise.
Yeah, I see your point. Over time regions have changed. "The South" in places like Raleigh Durahm, Atlanta, and other places, are no longer stereotypical "South." I was in Chapel Hill last year and barely heard a single southern accent, and saw all kinds of diversity (Asians, Latinos, South Asians, Whites, Blacks). Definitely not the sterotypical south. Miami is another example, like you point out. So I agree with you that what we think of as "The South" cannot really be put into a single box anymore. MD, DC, and Northern Virgina, are examples too, as you point out. But old habits and thoughts die hard, lol.
But what makes DC culture far from southern? Why can't its culture be an iteration of southern culture? Baltimore is an industrial southern city. Parts of NJ look it can fit right into SC somewhere and nobody could tell the difference, but people don't debate whether NJ is southern.
No southern accent by the majority... no known southern local cuisine culture....blue city surrounded by blue states.....education attainment and religious affiliations more akin to its northern peers...dominance of northern chains and lacks of southern ones.......just a few things off the top of my head..
And I'm saying that I'm specifically talking about the DC area so you don't come back with "Bmore is South" rhetoric because I'm not talking about BMore nor is this thread about BMore per usual. Plus I thought you didn't care about DC so why ask.
No southern accent by the majority... no known southern local cuisine culture....blue city surrounded by blue states.....education attainment and religious affiliations more akin to its northern peers...dominance of northern chains and lacks of southern ones.......just a few things off the top of my head..
And I'm saying that I'm specifically talking about the DC area so you don't come back with "Bmore is South" rhetoric because I'm not talking about BMore nor is this thread about BMore per usual. Plus I thought you didn't care about DC so why ask.
I'm always interested in other people's perspective. I want to know how someone can logically, and confidently call a city (DC) that is south of another southern city (Baltimore) a northern city. Every reason that you gave for why DC is not southern proves that the south has those "qualities." It's paradoxical and ironic. Why are you Begging and Pleading for northern acceptance?
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