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As for Milwaukee's segregation it's only as segregated as chicago. LA is very segregated as well. As is NYC.
And of course the smaller (not insignificant- MA and CT alone have over 1 million black people if you count those of mixed race, and ~900k when looking at black alone) black populations reach out to the rest of the US-they have no choice not to.
As for why I left Boston I could stay in my then current job and live with my roomates and not really advance but live well enough or I could start a job search and begin anew career.If I did so i would forfeit my employee housing. I made a decision and Boston was simply too expensive for me at the time without that housing and I had applied to jobs up and down the east coast and chose DC because i liked it when I visited. I was 23 and just wanted to see what else was out there. It was very very hard to leave Boston. There's a good chance I move back.
Boston's biggest issue is the core part of the city are so insanely expensive its like Manhattan without the housing projects or rent control. That is because the city has so much going for it. It's just wayyyy out of the price sphere for 99.9% of black people in the core. It makes Georgetown in DC look like a total bargain.
Furthermore there's is little to no outside black capital coming into Boston. For a long time the city branded itself as a white utopia/oasis so that it could get its urban revitalization going and secure a brand. It did so long before other cities began their renaissance because Boston had declined so early. When other relatively newer cities in the Midwest and Mid Atlantic were booming in the 1950s and 1960s attracting black folks into factory unions and positions that secured a middle class future Boston's mills were long since closed and the city was an economic backwater that was crowded, insanely dirty, and dangerous. It should be noted it has never seen a decrease in black population in our lifetimes unlike some of these other black locales. As for the black American net worth being $8 its likely because of low homeownership rate, and high student debt, as well as stringent zoning, code enforcement and liquor licenses that make entry to small business somewhat difficult. Black poverty and household income in Boston is better than the national average. Caribbean blacks in Boston have a net worth of 12k-probably because many were educated elsewhere and not in the US. It also could be that due to the very high concentration of public housing, section 8 housing, co-operative housing and income restricted units in Boston's Black neighborhoods that ha sa dampening effect on wealth accumulation.
Boston began its rebound earlier than other cities but black people were understandably wary because of the bussing riots. As I said i understand tit not being on the list. Remember-Shakeesha brought it up/
But i was just making a point that black folks tend to cluster (aside from East TX, NC, ATL) into economically weak states and places that arent the forefront of much and I think it's a bit disappointing. High poverty, low educational scores, sprawl, incredible rates of gun violence and violence in general, low wages and having to contend with openly racist white republicans every step of the way. Were always catching up to everyone else. You see most immigrants avoid most of the south like the plague-because they see there not much opportunity there.
I also don't see integration as necessarily something to strive for.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 01-06-2020 at 12:27 PM..
Black people don’t look to expand they don’t look to explore other states and set up businesses and give aid to smaller or more distant black communities and it hurts us in the short and long term. We concentrate in the south because it’s cheap. But it’s got the worst schools, the worst health, the most violence, backward politics and we’re willing to overlook all to that because it’s cheap and we’ve always been there. It’s frustrating. I get moving to ATL TX NC because of the booming economies 100 percent. It’s a smart move but us dying to associate and prop up dysfunctional and dying cities/regions- with a few exceptions- is a little disappointing at times. Because we sort of bypass great opportunity and culture elsewhere. I liked Boston for the diversity of black thought, its unorthodox nature, unique history and truly progressive nature. The mega church, drive everywhere, fast food everything, military in the family, suburban/country etc..lifestyle has never appealed to me.
That being said I know a good deal of black millennials who know a little about Boston and have been there/know people form there. They don’t view it as a top destination but they’re far far more open to its existence and relevance than older generations. Boomers think Boston is like the Apartheid if you even mention it. Gen Xers seem to associate it with grittiness/grimy ness and a lack of a black middle class. Millennials are more of a mixed bag.
Generally I thinks it’s a good place to raise a family if you an secure housing. The safety of the metro area, the cleanliness, the intellectual vibe, the quality of academics in public education, the exposure to cultural diversity, the museums and institutions and the ability to travel easily in public transit make it a wonderful place for kids.
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And let me add to this. Boston’s cleanliness, museums, institutions, cultural diversity, largest 4th of July celebration,etc. sounds like a good enough draw to visit but not reside in. You talk about Black people in dying regions in the south right. Let’s say you live in a poverty stricken community in New Orleans and are desperately seeking a way out. You have better options with better opportunities within a 5 to 7 hour radius on either side of the city/state. Do you bypass Houston/Dallas/Atlanta/Charlotte to move to Boston? A city with a high col and where even native Blacks complain about inequality and exclusivity within the dominant community. Yes it’ll be safer than NO on average and will give you more opportunities but you can get that any other major cities.
In a city that’s 73% White, far from the black belt and lacking representation in political infrastructure and economics, not to mention being expensive is going to turn a lot of Black Americans off. Even more and more White millennials are moving to cheaper cities to escape high col. Being clean,historic and beautifully architectural can only get you so far.
Trying to convince people to move to a city with only 4 middle to upper class black enclaves 30 mins from the city and little to no representation in positions of power or influence on city/metro level is asking a lot.
I mean look at San Francisco for a minute. While SF benefits from sharing a metro with Oakland the percentages of Black people in the metro is about the same. There also liberal progressive urban areas that are extremely expensive. Yet the Black community as small as they are still have somewhat of a bigger impact on the fabric of the metro in comparison to Boston. Boston has had no Black mayors while SF has had 2. That speaks volumes.
Bottom line, when Black travelers today( many millennials) suggest Boston is the less welcoming major city to Black people than who is to blame for that? And how could Black Americans benefit by and large to moving to spaces like that?
As for Milwaukee's segregation it's only as segregated as chicago. LA is very segregated as well. As is NYC.
And of course the smaller (not insignificant- MA and CT alone have over 1 million black people if you count those of mixed race, and ~900k when looking at black alone) black populations reach out to the rest of the US-they have no choice not to.
As for why I left Boston I could stay in my then current job and live with my roomates and not really advance but live well enough or I could start a job search and begin anew career.If I did so i would forfeit my employee housing. I made a decision and Boston was simply too expensive for me at the time without that housing and I had applied to jobs up and down the east coast and chose DC because i liked it when I visited. I was 23 and just wanted to see what else was out there. It was very very hard to leave Boston. There's a good chance I move back.
Boston's biggest issue is the core part of the city are so insanely expensive its like Manhattan without the housing projects or rent control. That is because the city has so much going for it. It's just wayyyy out of the price sphere for 99.9% of black people in the core. It makes Georgetown in DC look like a total bargain.
Furthermore there's is little to no outside black capital coming into Boston. For a long time the city branded itself as a white utopia/oasis so that it could get its urban revitalization going and secure a brand. It did so long before other cities began their renaissance because Boston had declined so early. When other relatively newer cities in the Midwest and Mid Atlantic were booming in the 1950s and 1960s attracting black folks into factory unions and positions that secured a middle class future Boston's mills were long since closed and the city was an economic backwater that was crowded, insanely dirty, and dangerous. It should be noted it has never seen a decrease in black population in our lifetimes unlike some of these other black locales. As for the black American net worth being $8 its likely because of low homeownership rate, and high student debt, as well as stringent zoning, code enforcement and liquor licenses that make entry to small business somewhat difficult. Black poverty and household income in Boston is better than the national average. Caribbean blacks in Boston have a net worth of 12k-probably because many were educated elsewhere and not in the US. It also could be that due to the very high concentration of public housing, section 8 housing, co-operative housing and income restricted units in Boston's Black neighborhoods that ha sa dampening effect on wealth accumulation.
Boston began its rebound earlier than other cities but black people were understandably wary because of the bussing riots. As I said i understand tit not being on the list. Remember-Shakeesha brought it up/
But i was just making a point that black folks tend to cluster (aside from East TX, NC, ATL) into economically weak states and places that arent the forefront of much and I think it's a bit disappointing. High poverty, low educational scores, sprawl, incredible rates of gun violence and violence in general, low wages and having to contend with openly racist white republicans every step of the way. Were always catching up to everyone else. You see most immigrants avoid most of the south like the plague-because they see there not much opportunity there.
I also don't see integration as necessarily something to strive for.
It's an ultra complex phenomenon some systemic to the country and the way the system is built/rigged and others systemic to African Americans in general as other groups indians, various middle-eastern communities, asians in general, south american and the Caribbean island nations on a whole blaze trails that seemingly elude many african americans. As other immigrants prosper due to higher educational attainment, entrepreneurship, and stick-together-ness. Whole swaths of large houses in several neighborhoods in suburbs in dallas, houston and Raleigh are like little India and transformed that way in the last (10 years) I'd like for the topic to stay on track as much as possible but I get what you are saying, we could do so much if we think outside the box.
I've heard that huntsville alabama and fayetteville arkansas along with cleveland Ohio are decent for black people as well. Also, Philadelphia which I'm surprised no one has said much about, Also Phoenix and Vegas are where a lot of black people leaving california are headed.
And let me add to this. Boston’s cleanliness, museums, institutions, cultural diversity, largest 4th of July celebration,etc. sounds like a good enough draw to visit but not reside in. You talk about Black people in dying regions in the south right. Let’s say you live in a poverty stricken community in New Orleans and are desperately seeking a way out. You have better options with better opportunities within a 5 to 7 hour radius on either side of the city/state. Do you bypass Houston/Dallas/Atlanta/Charlotte to move to Boston? A city with a high col and where even native Blacks complain about inequality and exclusivity within the dominant community. Yes it’ll be safer than NO on average and will give you more opportunities but you can get that any other major cities.
In a city that’s 73% White, far from the black belt and lacking representation in political infrastructure and economics, not to mention being expensive is going to turn a lot of Black Americans off. Even more and more White millennials are moving to cheaper cities to escape high col. Being clean,historic and beautifully architectural can only get you so far.
Trying to convince people to move to a city with only 4 middle to upper class black enclaves 30 mins from the city and little to no representation in positions of power or influence on city/metro level is asking a lot.
I mean look at San Francisco for a minute. While SF benefits from sharing a metro with Oakland the percentages of Black people in the metro is about the same. There also liberal progressive urban areas that are extremely expensive. Yet the Black community as small as they are still have somewhat of a bigger impact on the fabric of the metro in comparison to Boston. Boston has had no Black mayors while SF has had 2. That speaks volumes.
Bottom line, when Black travelers today( many millennials) suggest Boston is the less welcoming major city to Black people than who is to blame for that? And how could Black Americans benefit by and large to moving to spaces like that?
Of course you're not gonna skip those cities- they're the shining stars of the south.As for 73% white the percentage of doors to about 68% when you use today's stats and exclude rural new hampshire. The core ~2 million of the area is much lower than that
Boston hasn't had a black mayor but we've had a black governor. Who was popular enough to be re-elected and is now running for president. And Cambridge, Newton, and Framingham are all nearby (or adjacent) principle cities in the metro who have had multiple black mayors. Ayanna Pressley is also a pretty damn influential and well-known leader. As is our City Council President Kim Janey.
I've had black friends visit from Chicago, North Jersey, Suburban Philly and Washington C and teyall liked it-probably because they were with me. Its not a great city to just arrive and be black cold turkey. Its not- you need to know people. One girl from Philadelphia said she loved how chill and laid back it felt compare to Philly, and the street art in Lynn MA. One girl from Jersey said she loved the diversity of the people and the haitian presence. My Friend From the South Side of Chicago said "yall have some really beautiful neighborhoods here-I mean really beautiful." My friend from Dc said he like dthe feel of driving around Boston and the beach and downtown shopping area (Downton Crossing) and the Boston common.He said he thought the black people were very cool and a great sense of humor
Furthermore id it were so bad the city wouldn't have gained 20k black people since 200. The state wouldn't have gained 150k black people since 2000..350k to 500k.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 01-06-2020 at 02:47 PM..
A more wholistic picture of Boston area demographics...excluding the far fringes of the metro parts of New Hampshire are 2 hours and 40 minutes from Boston and in the MSA..I could make it to New Haven in that time. Meanwhile there are towns 35 minutes from Boston that are exluded and lumped into the Worcester or Providence MSA. Both of those cities are only 45 minutes from Boston yet aren’t included in the MSA thus dragging diversity stats down.
I delved into this data, I use Suffolk County as the hub of it all so there is some overlap with Suffolk County:
The 'Southern Portion' of the existing Boston Metro: Suffolk, Norfolk, and Plymouth Counties, Population ~2,030,000
64.4% White
15.3% Black or mixed race including black
11.9% Latino
8.1% Asian
^this is the 'blackest' part of the state
That portion expanded Suffolk, Norfolk, Plymouth, Bristol Counties and Providence County Rhode Island, Population ~3,230,000
66.8% White
13.0% Black or mixed race including black
13.5% Latino
6.4% Asian
'Southern Portion' of Boston Metro+ Providence County, Rhode Island and Worcester County, Population ~4,060,000
67.0% White
11.6% Black
13.2% Latino
6.2% Asian
The 'Northern Portion of the existing Boston Metro (excluding New Hampshire): Essex, Middlesex And Suffolk County MA, population 3,211,000
64.3% White
14.5% Latino
9.7% Asian
8.2% Black
Eastern MA (excluding the Cape and Islands) +Worcester County, MA and Providence County, RI, Population ~6,464,000 (~92% of Massachusetts total population)
68.4% White
13.0% Latino
9.6% Black
7.6% Asian
^That’s looks like a normal regular state to me. Most states are 70% + white. It’s the big states that are extremely diverse that make the country look more diverse than it is.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 01-06-2020 at 02:16 PM..
It's an ultra complex phenomenon some systemic to the country and the way the system is built/rigged and others systemic to African Americans in general as other groups indians, various middle-eastern communities, asians in general, south american and the Caribbean island nations on a whole blaze trails that seemingly elude many african americans. As other immigrants prosper due to higher educational attainment, entrepreneurship, and stick-together-ness. Whole swaths of large houses in several neighborhoods in suburbs in dallas, houston and Raleigh are like little India and transformed that way in the last (10 years) I'd like for the topic to stay on track as much as possible but I get what you are saying, we could do so much if we think outside the box.
I've heard that huntsville alabama and fayetteville arkansas along with cleveland Ohio are decent for black people as well. Also, Philadelphia which I'm surprised no one has said much about, Also Phoenix and Vegas are where a lot of black people leaving california are headed.
An area where the south lacks and makes Boston sort of an anti-Louisiana. Texas schools will build 10k seat football stadiums for high school football and school parking lots, and travel all over the country for 15 games and yet its suburban black kids perform worse in school than urban blacks in MA with no football field and only 8-10 game per year (in-state) allowed. Texas makes a lot of high school football players as a result. Gets a lot of shine and respect in the black community. Massachusetts put the second black female astronaut in space (Stephanie Wilson).
Whites,Asians and Hispanics don't chose cities/regions generally based on expanding presence and strengthening small communities. No ethnic group moves to particular regions for strategic reasons like that.
Take for instance Asian Americans. Majority of the Asian population in this country is located on the Westcoast. It's been that way for several generations now moving forward. Yes you do see a significant population of Asian ethnic groups in other major metro cities across America. New York City of course, Chicago,Houston,etc. But the Westcoast still remains the cultural hub for Asian Americans of most ethnic groups.
White people can be comfortable any and everywhere because of their position in this country. When you have people who look like you and share the same ethnicity as you create the country you live in than yeah, you can go any and everywhere you please in this country. By and large their in a position of controlling economics/resources/politics so there's no place they can't go. Not to mention Non Hispanic Whites make up about 60.7% of Americas population.
Black people are no different than any other ethnic group as far as what they generally look for in a place to live. Not to mention Black people have the largest migration to date in American history. We've already tried to go to other communities and EXPAND our PRESENCE only to run into road blocks in the form of subtle discrimination/redlining/racist unions/police brutality/etc. outside the south.
You call Milwaukee one of the most segregated cities in North America a Black Hub? There's no major connection between Minneapolis/Milwaukee or Chicago. Minn to Milwaukee is 5 hours apart and in between those major metros are predominately white towns and counties. What's in between Omaha and Kansas City? What surrounds those 2 metro areas? Even Kansas City and St.Louis is distance of predominately White middle America. I've made that drive from KC to STL. It's very very white. The South accounts for over 55% of the Black population in the country. The Northeast and Midwest account for less then 20% and the West is of course even lesser than those 2 regions.
So the solution would be for Black people to spread out all over the country and that will insure that we'll climb up the success ladder? Yet some of the small black communities that are isolated from real Black Hubs in this country are some of the most segregated communities in the country and still face some of the same issues you'll see in areas of the south.
Are these states with insignificant amounts of black people reaching out to the black community though? Why is it solely on US to reach out but not the other way around? Your logic though doesn't make sense. African Americans concentrate in the south for many different reasons. You fail to realize that the south has some of the fastest growing states and cities in the country among many different ethnic and racial groups. Texas and Florida were the fastest growing states in the country. You think that's only Blacks moving there?
Nobodies bigging up Mississippi/Louisiana/Alabama. The south is not monolithic. But exactly how is Boston a glowing example for Black people to prosper when Blacks have a net worth of $8.00?
Here you have access to some of the best universities/healthcare/amenities in the country yet Blacks still feel isolated and left out in the mainstream fabric of the city? How is that?
Hell if Boston was so great for Black people why did you leave?
Maybe I'm So Southern I Sometimes Scare Ignorant People's Perception of Independence
An area where the south lacks and makes Boston sort of an anti-Louisiana. Texas schools will build 10k seat football stadiums for high school football and school parking lots, and travel all over the country for 15 games and yet its suburban black kids perform worse in school than urban blacks in MA with no football field and only 8-10 game per year (in-state) allowed. Texas makes a lot of high school football players as a result. Gets a lot of shine and respect in the black community. Massachusetts put the second black female astronaut in space (Stephanie Wilson).
So Black suburban students in Texas perform worse in school than inner city black students in MA huh? You got this from where exactly?
In actuality no matter what part of America your in, African American students face a educational problem due to in large part a structural racist system that's been pretty much set in place since forever. African Americans have had to navigate within this system for generations and in many cases it's stifle prosperity on a large scale unlike a lot of foreign born communities that came to the country in the 70s and 80s.
With that said Boston is no exception. Exhibit A:
Quote:
The cities where the very highest shares of African American students attend mostly low-income schools testify to the breadth of the problem. They include communities from all corners of the country, and range from weathered Rust Belt communities (like Detroit and Newark) to Sunbelt high-fliers (like Dallas, Houston, and Nashville). In order, the cities where the most black students attend majority low-income schools include: Detroit; San Bernardino, Calif.; Newark; Milwaukee; Birmingham, Ala.; Hialeah, Fla.; Boston; Chicago; Philadelphia; New York; Memphis, Tenn.; Baton Rouge, La.; Dallas; North Las Vegas; Stockton, Calif.; Wichita, Kan.; New Orleans; Tulsa, Okla.; Houston; and Miami.
So not only is the achievement gap still wide along racial lines but Boston is more segregated NOW than it was 2 DECADES AGO. That's alarming.
Not to mention the 4 Black upper and middle class enclaves that Boston has, the schools that service those suburbs that cater to most of the Black populace in Greater Boston don't have a favorable rating on schooldigger or greaterschools.
Meanwhile when you take a look for example at the best magnet schools in America, you see that 13 out of 20 are located in the South. 2 in Houston and 3 in Dallas. Those schools also happen to have a decent size Black presence in those schools.
As far as schools in Texas suburbs relying heavily on sports culture. While there is some schools in the state that spend way too much on new stadiums than academics that's not the case for every school in the burbs. And for the record Black students have many more options of going to a highly favorable school with a good percentage or predominately black percentage of students than ANYWHERE in Greater Boston.
But you can always got to a overwhelmingly White school and be a "trailblazer" at those schools.
Which is pretty sad considering Boston is home to the best universities in the country. You would think that would spill locally to all students of Boston no matter the color. But that's clearly by design.
But congratulations! Boston's city council is finally joining the 20th century and diversifying it's seats to represent a more diverse city.
Of course you're not gonna skip those cities- they're the shining stars of the south.As for 73% white the percentage of doors to about 68% when you use today's stats and exclude rural new hampshire. The core ~2 million of the area is much lower than that
Boston hasn't had a black mayor but we've had a black governor. Who was popular enough to be re-elected and is now running for president. And Cambridge, Newton, and Framingham are all nearby (or adjacent) principle cities in the metro who have had multiple black mayors. Ayanna Pressley is also a pretty damn influential and well-known leader. As is our City Council President Kim Janey.
I've had black friends visit from Chicago, North Jersey, Suburban Philly and Washington C and teyall liked it-probably because they were with me. Its not a great city to just arrive and be black cold turkey. Its not- you need to know people. One girl from Philadelphia said she loved how chill and laid back it felt compare to Philly, and the street art in Lynn MA. One girl from Jersey said she loved the diversity of the people and the haitian presence. My Friend From the South Side of Chicago said "yall have some really beautiful neighborhoods here-I mean really beautiful." My friend from Dc said he like dthe feel of driving around Boston and the beach and downtown shopping area (Downton Crossing) and the Boston common.He said he thought the black people were very cool and a great sense of humor
Furthermore id it were so bad the city wouldn't have gained 20k black people since 200. The state wouldn't have gained 150k black people since 2000..350k to 500k.
Yet this BOSTON GLOBE article does a great job in breaking down the Black experience in Boston and Greater Boston by showing data,facts,historical evidence and research to paint a bit of a different picture than the one your displaying on City Data. And no one is saying it's "bad". That's subjective and depends on one's own personal experience. But to dismiss the south as awhole in favor of Boston to me is perplexing. Boston has it's own set of problems pertaining to Black people that should be more of a focus instead of the south.
I like how you put words in my mouth. My point is when we get attacked by Russia ,North Korea,China,etc rather deserved or not,do you think THEY will care about our ancestors getting us here?LOL
You could not have created crap had the Union lost. The Union didnt care about black people nor did Lincoln. It was all about power and preservation but look who benefited?
Do u really think you would be here as you are today had none of these wars turned out the way it did? How do you think the furture will go if that in which our ancestors died for is taken over for those who hate our politics as much as we do?
So you either leave or you do the best you can by voting and participating to protect that vote.You can talk all the hyperbole yall want but it garbage at the end of the day when the enemy of your enemy is at the same front door of your house
Russia/North Korea/China is not attacking us now. The boogeyman is the police shooting you down in the street. The police profiling you for the color of your skin. The boogeyman is the government oppressing you. The government is the people that support a openly racist President and any ideology that views us less than our white counterparts.
We didn't create anything without the union? We had our own civilization/culture/societies before we were reduce to slavery. What are you talking about?
You sound silly. What are you going to say next? We should be thanking America for enslaving our ancestors so we can enjoy sodas and tv? Oh Thank you Mr.White Man, what we will do without you?
With your logic, maybe America should thank Hitler and the Nazi party for the atrocities they committed against Jews and Gypsies since America had no problem swooping up Nazi war criminals to help in the advancement of science and technology in this country huh?
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