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I never said anything to the contrary. I said the number of US visitors has declined, while the number of overseas visitors has increased.
The numbers ebb and flow but I think in time the trend line will still be upwards. Certainly a group we wouldn't want to give up on! For example, in 2011 U.S visitors to Toronto increased 2.7 percent over 2010 numbers
In addition it appears we are getting more sophisticated U.S travellers than in the past that see Toronto as an Urban destination.. Less may be coming by car but more by air! This means those coming have more money!
Toronto is a major international tourist destination. Toronto receives more total tourists than any other city in the country, AND more foreign tourists than any other city in the country. That is not my opinion. That is fact.
And I don't have to rely on what I've read to know this either. I know this first-hand. I live in downtown Toronto, and see throngs and throngs of foreign tourists every day, particularly during the Summer and early Fall when events like the Toronto Indy, Caribana, the CNE, TIFF, and Nuit Blanche are going on. I don't know who told afonega1 that Toronto is not a major tourist destination, but they are an idiot, and I don't understand why he is listening to them.
LOL. The whole thread he's been arguing that Chicago's a bigger international tourist destination, and now he screws up that whole argument by posting a list proving that international tourists spend more money every year in Toronto than in Chicago. And according to the same list, they spend almost twice as much money in Toronto as they do in Montreal.
No. The thread is Toronto, Chicago, and SF. Vancouver has nothing to do with it. Toronto gets far more international tourists than Chicago, and they spend more total money in Toronto than they do in Chicago. Toronto also gets more international tourists than SF. They don't spend quite as much because SF is far more expensive, particularly when it comes to hotel rooms.
The vast majority of Chicago's visitors are NOT international visitors. Rather they are from places like Idaho, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, etc. To them, Chicago offers a "big city" experience. Many of them will never travel overseas in their entire lifetime.
What are you talking about?That was never the argument.No one disagreed that Toronto had a high number of international tourist.The point of fact made IS that many of those people are Americans.In fact the majority are.Hence INTERNATIONAL!
Learn to read the fact behind the numbers BEFORE you TRY to correct someone else.
If you also read the whole thread as you say you have then you would have seen where I stated I have been to Toronto 3x.
What are you talking about?That was never the argument.No one disagreed that Toronto had a high number of international tourist.The point of fact made IS that many of those people are Americans.In fact the majority are.Hence INTERNATIONAL!
Learn to read the fact behind the numbers BEFORE you TRY to correct someone else.
If you also read the whole thread as you say you have then you would have seen where I stated I have been to Toronto 3x.
2.1 to 1.3 is still a pretty big difference but when you factor in the growth percentage Overseas vs U.S that gap will close pretty quickly. An even split is good actually - especially if the American travellers are higher yield than in the past. I would take more U.S tourists from NYC and California (which seems to be happening in terms of U.S growth for Toronto tourism) over Cleveland and Buffalo who are typically same day crowds who don't spend as much.. I definitely saw a lot of New Yorkers in T.O this summer - especially during Caribana.
What are you talking about?That was never the argument.No one disagreed that Toronto had a high number of international tourist.The point of fact made IS that many of those people are Americans.In fact the majority are.Hence INTERNATIONAL!
Learn to read the fact behind the numbers BEFORE you TRY to correct someone else.
If you also read the whole thread as you say you have then you would have seen where I stated I have been to Toronto 3x.
No, that was not the whole argument. The argument was ALSO that Chicago is more of an international tourist destination than Toronto. Yet Toronto gets more international tourists, AND they spend more.
I don't know why you're talking about Toronto anyways. You've made it abundantly clear that you know almost nothing about the city. Three trips does not qualify you to debate about the city against people who live here.
No, that was not the whole argument. The argument was ALSO that Chicago is more of an international tourist destination than Toronto. Yet Toronto gets more international tourists, AND they spend more.
.
It really is a moot point some are using that U.S visitors to Toronto don't count as International tourists - they do.. The latest overseas numbers for Toronto are pretty good too.. 1.36 million in 2011 with a 6% growth rate.. add to that 2.1 million for U.S with a 2.7% growth rate and that is total 3.5 million visitors from other countries to the city with a healthy growth rate.. nothing to complain about there and is a good indication why Toronto has jumped from 9th to 6th place in hotel occupancy rates in N.A. The SeeTorontonow stats also did a good job of debunking the myth that more visitors to Toronto come for business than leisure when it is clear that Toronto posts more visitors for leisure than business. When it becomes clear to them that Toronto is a tourist draw and is the most visited city in Canada across the board - they want to bring the argument to Tourist spending... yet for O/N tourist spending Toronto is ranked number 6 in North America which is quite good and just shy of S.F but ahead of D.C and Washington - that is not bad company whatsoever! Furthermore once its clear Toronto posts healthy numbers for O/N tourist dollars spent - they shift it to well most of that is from U.S tourists and the stats show that more money is spent from overseas travellers than U.S travellers even though we get more U.S travellers. I'm waiting for what is next....
No, that was not the whole argument. The argument was ALSO that Chicago is more of an international tourist destination than Toronto. Yet Toronto gets more international tourists, AND they spend more.
I don't know why you're talking about Toronto anyways. You've made it abundantly clear that you know almost nothing about the city. Three trips does not qualify you to debate about the city against people who live here.
Dude.I am a tourist.Not a local.That was the point you don't seem to comprehend.What people see when they visit and their views about the city.
I never claimed to know everything about Toronto.I only know what I know.Why would I know everything about a city i'm visiting?
You can attack all you want and it wont change the fact that I'm not the only one who has said similar sentiments about Toronto.
Based on my statements about my opinions(some of which have had facts in which to back them)obviously its a concern based on the lower amount of money spent.
You are just making excuses.One minute you don't want to accept that TO gets more Americans counted as international visitors.Another minute you just quoted the same source that shows Chicago visitor spend is less.Obviously Americans are spending more in Toronto.If you look at the numbers its a small margin of how much TO has over Chicago.You divide that by how many international tourist TO get vs Chicago you can then understand that there spending less based on the number of international visitors
Its not a trick.Its just understanding where these numbers come from and for what purpose.
If it is your contention that I not have an opinion because you simply don't like it ,then that's YOUR problem and really has nothing to to with me.
The conclusion is that yes Toronto gets more international traffic but its AMERICANS almost 2 to 1 for everybody else.
Chicago definitely get more from Europe and other areas however Toronto has faster growth.
These are just facts but you really have a problem accepting the good and the bad.You just want good and nothing bad.
What the hell do you think I against T.O. other than an opinion you dont like?Sheessh!
It really is a moot point some are using that U.S visitors to Toronto don't count as International tourists - they do.. The latest overseas numbers for Toronto are pretty good too.. 1.36 million in 2011 with a 6% growth rate.. add to that 2.1 million for U.S with a 2.7% growth rate and that is total 3.5 million visitors from other countries to the city with a healthy growth rate.. nothing to complain about there and is a good indication why Toronto has jumped from 9th to 6th place in hotel occupancy rates in N.A. The SeeTorontonow stats also did a good job of debunking the myth that more visitors to Toronto come for business than leisure when it is clear that Toronto posts more visitors for leisure than business. When it becomes clear to them that Toronto is a tourist draw and is the most visited city in Canada across the board - they want to bring the argument to Tourist spending... yet for O/N tourist spending Toronto is ranked number 6 in North America which is quite good and just shy of S.F but ahead of D.C and Washington - that is not bad company whatsoever! Furthermore once its clear Toronto posts healthy numbers for O/N tourist dollars spent - they shift it to well most of that is from U.S tourists and the stats show that more money is spent from overseas travellers than U.S travellers even though we get more U.S travellers. I'm waiting for what is next....
Just for the record,I never made a claim one way or another of which came more than the other(business vs leisure).I just assumed it was about even or not far from it either way.
Fact is less is spent than in Vancouver.You just seem to ignore that point.
Just for the record,I never made a claim one way or another of which came more than the other(business vs leisure).I just assumed it was about even or not far from it either way.
Fact is less is spent than in Vancouver.You just seem to ignore that point.
I wasn't referring to you about the business vs Leisure traveller - there were others who made the assumption.. A lot of assumptions have been made actually - I mean that generally.
I did address the Vancouver spending and noted it was impressive. Think about it though - more International dollars spent in Vancouver than anywhere else in N.A except NYC and L.A... I even provided an explanation as to why I think that is and imo it has nothing to do with YVR being a better destination - particularly over urban cities like Boston, S.F, D.C, Toronto, Montreal etc.. Trust me there is ALOT of HK money going back and forth between YVR and HKG because there are wealthy dual residents of both cities.. Canadians don't call Vancouver Hongcouver for nothing. Vancouver is a beautiful city but it is not as urban or as exciting a city as Boston, D.C, S.F Toronto and Montreal imo - these cities are far more urban, far more interesting and have oodles more culture, fine arts than Vancouver. I felt that Seattle was a more impressive and 'complete' city than Vancouver and enjoyed my experience more there. If you equate the dollars spent by 'foreign' visitors to Vancouver as proof it is the greatest destination in Canada - than you also have to acquiesce to the fact that it is the 3rd best city destination in North America... do you really think that?
I like Vancouver... Stanley Park was lovely and there was some interesting architecture.. It is a clean city with some nifty attractions and it isn't too bad on the vibrancy scale but as an urban destination in North America there are far more impressive choices and YVR is certainly not number 3 in my books. As a matter of fact if I visit Vancouver again i'll rent a car and go driving through beautiful B.C!
I wasn't referring to you about the business vs Leisure traveller - there were others who made the assumption.. A lot of assumptions have been made actually - I mean that generally.
I did address the Vancouver spending and noted it was impressive. Think about it though - more International dollars spent in Vancouver than anywhere else in N.A except NYC and L.A... I even provided an explanation as to why I think that is and imo it has nothing to do with YVR being a better destination - particularly over urban cities like Boston, S.F, D.C, Toronto, Montreal etc.. Trust me there is ALOT of HK money going back and forth between YVR and HKG because there are wealthy dual residents of both cities.. Canadians don't call Vancouver Hongcouver for nothing. Vancouver is a beautiful city but it is not as urban or as exciting a city as Boston, D.C, S.F Toronto and Montreal imo - these cities are far more urban, far more interesting and have oodles more culture, fine arts than Vancouver. I felt that Seattle was a more impressive and 'complete' city than Vancouver and enjoyed my experience more there. If you equate the dollars spent by 'foreign' visitors to Vancouver as proof it is the greatest destination in Canada - than you also have to acquiesce to the fact that it is the 3rd best city destination in North America... do you really think that?
I like Vancouver... Stanley Park was lovely and there was some interesting architecture.. It is a clean city with some nifty attractions and it isn't too bad on the vibrancy scale but as an urban destination in North America there are far more impressive choices and YVR is certainly not number 3 in my books. As a matter of fact if I visit Vancouver again i'll rent a car and go driving through beautiful B.C!
How does that add up to my thinking Voncouver is the third best city because of higher spending amounts?
Itjust is what it is.I don't see it as a staement of what a city is one way or another.As I said before,when all the numbers are put together with the other facts,some reasonable conclusions can be made.
I made some conclusions of what I felt and my opinion was given credibility with the statements made by a respected travel report.If I as a tourist came to a similar conclusion than it must not just me being "difficult" or unusual in my observations.
Dude.I am a tourist.Not a local.That was the point you don't seem to comprehend.What people see when they visit and their views about the city.
I never claimed to know everything about Toronto.I only know what I know.Why would I know everything about a city i'm visiting?
You can attack all you want and it wont change the fact that I'm not the only one who has said similar sentiments about Toronto.
You don't know enough about Toronto to talk about it in an intelligent manner. I've been to Atlanta briefly years ago. But you don't see me talking about it, do you? It's because I don't know it well enough to do so.
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You are just making excuses.One minute you don't want to accept that TO gets more Americans counted as international visitors.
No. I never said Toronto doesn't get a lot of Americans. You are making up garbage now.
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Another minute you just quoted the same source that shows Chicago visitor spend is less.
Yes. Foreigners spend less in Chicago than in Toronto. That's my whole point. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. You aren't being clear in regards to your argument.
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If it is your contention that I not have an opinion because you simply don't like it ,then that's YOUR problem and really has nothing to to with me.
No. I never said you don't have an opinion. You've expressed your opnion ad nauseum in this thread. It is my contention that you are not knowledgable enough on Toronto to discuss it intelligently. And you've proven this repeatedly.
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Chicago definitely get more from Europe and other areas
Nonsense. Chicago absolutely does not get more European visitors than Toronto. This is yet another claim you've made that you've not backed up with a link or source. If this "fact" is true, post a link showing the number of European visitors each city gets. Just because you say something doesn't make it true.
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That was never the argument.No one disagreed that Toronto had a high number of international tourist.The point of fact made IS that many of those people are Americans.In fact the majority are.Hence INTERNATIONAL!
