Lake of fire

[legoman]

Jesus defeats death and makes all alive. If some people stay eternally dead, then we cannot rightfully say that Jesus defeats death nor makes all alive.

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by legoman

Jesus defeats death and makes all alive. If some people stay eternally dead, then we cannot rightfully say that Jesus defeats death nor makes all alive.

And we are told that wherever sin abounds, grace will much more abound. Yet the Fundamentalist Christian religion teaches the sin will abound much more that grace.

[RAZZEL]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

Ecclesiastes 9:5 only proves there is no "hell" after we die ... It does nothing to prove what you said about "death from which there is no hope of coming back" ... As a matter of fact everything you posted above seems to me to only disprove your argument. That is other than your quote "eternal destruction" which is "Olethron Aionion" in the Greek and should be translated "destruction pertaining to the age". Of Course all the warriors and defenders of the gates of hell and eternal torment will not accept this.

I agree that there is not a literal place calling itself hell. It just does not exist. I am agreeing with you so i don't quite understand. After death we are conscious of nothing at all. We return to the dust in which our heavenly father created Adam from. When Jesus Christ returns, all of those that are dead in Christ will be resurrected. Our heavenly Father would not send his beloved people that he created to hell and torment. The unbelievers just cease their existence. They are No More........

So, why do you say that I am #1 arguing....I only am speaking the Word Of God.!!!!!!!!

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by RAZZEL

I agree that there is not a literal place calling itself hell. It just does not exist. I am agreeing with you so i don't quite understand. After death we are conscious of nothing at all. We return to the dust in which our heavenly father created Adam from. When Jesus Christ returns, all of those that are dead in Christ will be resurrected. Our heavenly Father would not send his beloved people that he created to hell and torment. The unbelievers just cease their existence. They are No More........

So, why do you say that I am #1 arguing....I only am speaking the Word Of God.!!!!!!!!

Just as in Adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive ...

[Messianic Jew A Long Time]

The lost clearly need to be saved from their sins. (see Matthew 1:21) What 'Conditional Immortality' correctly and simply teaches is that immortality is 'conditional'. It is only for the saved (2 Timothy 1:10). Therefore, the 'punishment' of the sinner is not preservation in torment, but eschatological death. It is "Capital Punishment" of body and soul on 'Resurrection Day' from the judicial hand of God. It is loss of life forever; it is eternal death beginning on Judgment Day. It is rather interesting that most believe "death" is the worst punishment you can face on this earth in a court of law, yet do not believe this about Judgment day in God's court. The hold such a low view of 'life' that death is not a punishment for them. Yet this is exactly what the wages of sin are (Romans 6:23).

"The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23) Paul wrote. This scripture is not to be given any theological 'spin' to its meaning. Read it plainly. Death is the absence of life. 'Death' (Gk: thanatos) does not mean torment in Greek - never. Its parallel is in Romans 6:23 which is the gift of "eternal life" for the believer. The setting is clearly eschatological. The "wages of sin" will be the sinners' loss of life (death) at the end of the age. It is their "second death" (Revelation 20:14-15) which ends (not preserves) their body and soul's living forever (Matthew 10:28).


Even in Torah (Books of Moses), there was no basis for unending physical torture, none. The conscience strokes due to a person were always limited.

* If the guilty man deserves to be beaten, the judge shall make him lie down and have him flogged in his presence with the number of lashes his crime deserves, but he must not give him more than forty lashes. (Deuteronomy 25:2-3)

Even Yeshua (Jesus) taught limited conscience physical sufferings upon the guilty:

* "That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. (Luke 12:47-48)

The adjectives "many" and "few" in Luke 12 could not be used if eternal conscious torment were what He was teaching here. He would have used "heavier" and "lighter" if the duration of conscience sufferings were eternal. So according to Yeshua's (Jesus') own words, some will have "many stripes" (Hitler types) and some will have "few stripes" (only God knows).

Now there will indeed be pain and suffering in the dying process. That much is absolutely true, (just look at what happened to Jesus (Yeshua) on the cross). However, the "wage of sin" (Romans 6:23) is ultimately death, not the suffering process in getting to death itself. It is the "second death" (Rev. 2:11).

Again, it is eternal punishment, not eternal punishings. (Matthew 25:46) Death is the punishment; and it lasts forever.That is why it is called eternal punishment. It is a punishment with everlasting effects. Remember, Jesus Himself tells us that the fire was never made for humans, it was "prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41). Humans, however, will be destroyed there. Cremated according to Isaiah 66:24.

More Conditional Immortality info at jewishnotgreek.com Why Conditional Immortality is true and biblical


Be well....