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To believe what is contained in The Apostles' Creed has been universally sufficient for 2,000 years to be accepted as a member of the Church. Of all the religions of the world, The Faith of the largest percentage of humanity is herein expressed. With full committment of faith I heartily confess these truths from which I consider my life and it's enjoyment to come. This is the basis of my experience of God and any hope for the future, both personally and for the rest of mankind.
The Apostles' Creed
1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord;
3. Who was born by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary,
4. Was crucified under Pontius Pilate and was buried; He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose from the dead;
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father;
7. From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead.
8. And in the Holy Ghost;
9. The holy universal Church;
10. The forgiveness of sins;
11. The resurrection of the flesh.
This form of the Apostles' Creed called Roman is older by 300 years than the Recieved. (Though the phrase, "He descended into hell" is not in it, it is in the Received Apostles' Creed.) Though existing even earlier in fragmentary form, it is the oldest of the the three or four earliest. By calling them the ecumenical creeds, "We understand the doctrinal confessions of ancient Christianity, which are to this day either formally or tacitly acknowledged in the Greek, the Latin, and the Evangelical Protestant Churches, and form a bond of union between them. . . These three or four creeds contain, in brief popular outline, the fundamental articles of the Christian faith, as necessary and sufficient for salvation."— The Creeds of Christendom by Philip Schaff. He also points out that the Apostles' Creed, "Together with the Lord's Prayer and the Ten Commandments, was incorporated in the Lutheran, the Genevan, the Heidelberg, and other standard Catechisms." The Ten Commandments are also part of my faith, being spoken by God directly in the hearing of all the people, unlike the rest of what we call The Law of Moses. They are as absolute, producing reward or punishment, in the moral realm as the law of gravity does in it's realm.
It is important to point out that you can look in vain in The Apostles', the Nicene, and the Athanasian Creed, including the christological statement of Chalcedon (451 AD) for even a hint that everlasting torment is considered a part of The Faith. In fact, for at least the first 500 years of Church history it is easily demonstrated to be a minority opinion, of which this evidence of the ecumenical Creeds is a part.
When I say this I don't mean to be picky. But when I hear the word Real Christian it doesn't really mean anything because there isn't a such thing. I mean if you are a Christian that follows Christ then you are doing what you are suppose to do.
WHat is this thing with the word real Christians. I caught myself saying that also. But Christ never said anything about a real Christian or not. He said that if you love me then you will live by commandment. He never said anything about real Christian, that is the term we have coined and made up. You are either one or you are not. Or you are Christian that have fallen away from what Christ has taught. If you are Christian and make a mistake it doesn't mean that you lost you Christian card, it just means you made a mistake. The people that use the term real Christian probably are not that real as they say. Because God says that all have fallen short of His glory. So, they probably aren't even the word that they use (real).
I'm personally tired of hearing the term Real Christian. Would you walk up to someone and say hello I'm not just a Christian, but I'm the Real Christian. Do you see how that sounds?
If you are a (REal) Christian as someone or you say, then your actions will speak for it all. You want have to say it. I'm not a real Christian, I'm a Christian that is following after my Lord and Savior and I love Him with all my heart. I let my life speak for me and allow people to see what a Christian is suppose to look like. When people see my life I want them to say that they see Christ in me, or that they see the love of Christ, or that they now know what a Christian is suppose to act like, not just to say oh that is a real Christian.
WHen Christ walked among His creation they saw Him for who He was, He was God, our Savior, Our High Priest, our Redeemer, not our real God, or real Savior, or real Hight Priest, or real Redeemer, but our God.
I think we have gotten so caught up in words that it really doesn't mean anything anymore.
Jesus had 12 diciples, not 12 real diciples. All of them had there faults because they were not perfect. So, when Peter denied Christ three times, he was still a diciples. I guess some would say he was not a real diciples because he denied Christ, which sounds really silly if you take the time and listen to how it sounds. Peter made a mistake but he was stilll a diciples just like the rest of them. Peter was not a real diciples but he was a diciple. Christ never said anything about real diciples.
It really does sound silly to add the term real. If that is the case, then who are the real Catholics, or real Buddhist, or real Atheists. It's silly to add the word real onto something that Christ didn't want added to show His character
I'm just expressing my opinion and I hope this doesn't upset some. This is just how I see the word real being used.
I love Christ to much to cheapen Him or what He has done, for the word real.
But it's easy to distenguise between a follower of Christ and someone who does not who call themselves Christian. Just look at there life! It's that simples. A follower of Christ will look like Him, and one who is not will look like what ever they are following.
But Christ never said anything about a real Christian or not. He said that if you love me then you will live by commandment.
Beautifully said, Miss Shawna.
I think where the issue emerges is in the question of following Christianity or following Christ. To follow the institution of Christianity created in the wake of Christ's life by mortal humans, then I would agree that adherence to the creed they established is tantamount to membership (much like following the creed of any organization is tantamount to being a part of it).
But Christ never spoke of adhering to any creed (so far as I know...?), so then I think one must take Miss Shawna's approach rooted in love.
Thank you for your post, Rhodes. I'd never considered your perspective on eternal torment.
I think where the issue emerges is in the question of following Christianity or following Christ. To follow the institution of Christianity created in the wake of Christ's life by mortal humans, then I would agree that adherence to the creed they established is tantamount to membership (much like following the creed of any organization is tantamount to being a part of it).
But Christ never spoke of adhering to any creed (so far as I know...?), so then I think one must take Miss Shawna's approach rooted in love.
Thank you for your post, Rhodes. I'd never considered your perspective on eternal torment.
God bless.
Thanks for the comment of agreement. I saw that I made a mistake in what I wrote. I left out the my, but I think that people get what I was saying.
Quote:
But Christ never said anything about a real Christian or not. He said that if you love me then you will live by my commandments.
^^
There's so much truth in that last statement from what I have experienced.
It's not if you live by my commandments, then you will love me.
In my awakening to a path in Christ I have risen above any desire to break any of the commandments. I didn't come to Christ through commandments I felt needed adherence.
^^
There's so much truth in that last statement from what I have experienced.
It's not if you live by my commandments, then you will love me.
In my awakening to a path in Christ I have risen above any desire to break any of the commandments. I didn't come to Christ through commandments I felt needed adherence.
But, that's just my own journey.
Yea, I agree I didn't come to Christ by following all of the commandments. I tried that and relized that living by the law is truely death. I mean can we truely live by the laws without every breaking them or messing up. I think not.
But I came to Christ because He first came to me and loved me and called me His own. I love Christ and strive to live by His commandments daily even if I mess up from from time to time.
I'm just so glad that Christ is patient with us and knows that we have faults. He knows our frame, but loves us any way. What a God we serve. I love that He personally goes to His people and calls them to Himself. If not I wouldn't be here. I'm just so glad that The Almighty God would love someone like me.
Yea, I agree I didn't come to Christ by following all of the commandments. I tried that and relized that living by the law is truely death. I mean can we truely live by the laws without every breaking them or messing up. I think not.
But I came to Christ because He first came to me and loved me and called me His own. I love Christ and strive to live by His commandments daily even if I mess up from from time to time.
I'm just so glad that Christ is patient with us and knows that we have faults. He knows our frame, but loves us any way. What a God we serve. I love that He personally goes to His people and calls them to Himself. If not I wouldn't be here. I'm just so glad that The Almighty God would love someone like me.
It's amazing how He lookes past our faults.
nice post miss shawn, I agree. I also agree with your previous post about REAL christians. Very well said.
I see the 'creed's as simply man-made and of no spiritual importance.
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