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I created a thread on this very topic. Please address all winepress thoughts to that thread. Thankyou and may your grapes be crushed into fine wine!
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This is very interesting, grapes into wine (Can you separate the grape from the wine?) Symbolically, feet represent understanding. It might look like God runs out of wine (the ability to save the day) but He always saves the best (the fulfillment of His desire) to last.
I still haven't worked out how they share the gospel.
Christ died for sins! He may have died for your sins, but on the other hand He may not have.
If you believe, then He did! Unless you fall away later, then you never actually believed and He never did die for your sins.
You call me a calvinist, I have been testifying to the Gospel here, everyday.
LOL If you're Calvinist then nothing anyone says or does or believes makes any difference in the end. If you're Calvinist, your "warning" is useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightfame52
You being warned also !
Why??? What is the point of warning anyone??? What can they do about it??? God supposedly makes the choice!!! Either your mind works funny or it doesn't work at all!!!
Just look up these declarations and listen to them scream in English, or any chosen language.
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sits upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."
"Et toute créature qui est dans les cieux, et sur la terre, et sous la terre, et comme dans la mer, et tout ce qui est en eux, j'ai entendu dire : Bénédiction, et honneur, gloire et puissance, soit à celui qui est assis sur le trône, et à l'Agneau pour toujours et à jamais."
perfect brother. That scripture shows that the scripture of every knee bowing and every tongue confessing is done in praise unto the glory of God the Father.
Mike that is backwards, scripture takes precedence over tradition always. You seem to believe the traditions of men takes precedence over the scripture.
Catholics do not adhere to Sola Scriptura. Scripture and Tradition are on equal footing as Scripture itself is a Tradition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
Doctrine should be based on scripture not on mans understanding of scripture.
The Catholic view is that doctrine should be based on both Scripture and the Apostolic Tradition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
And you know the scriptures mike so how can you say that scripture is an isolated scripture?
I didn't use the term "isolated scripture", and I'm not sure what you mean by that. My argument is simply that that Scripture ("Savior of all, especially those that believe") doesn't mean what you think it means.
So after one comes to know Christ and is saved they lose their faith in him? That is a very weird belief mike
No; but when one dies and all is revealed, then faith is no longer possible to attain or necessary. This is simply definitional. It's not that a believer "loses faith" when He dies and comes face to face with Christ; but rather that his faith is fulfilled by vision.
Do those saints who have died and are in the presence of God have "faith" that they will one day live in God's presence? No! It has already been achieved. Faith has given way to the Beatific Vision.
Catholics do not adhere to Sola Scriptura. Scripture and Tradition are on equal footing as Scripture itself is a Tradition.
The Catholic view is that doctrine should be based on both Scripture and the Apostolic Tradition.
I didn't use the term "isolated scripture", and I'm not sure what you mean by that. My argument is simply that that Scripture ("Savior of all, especially those that believe") doesn't mean what you think it means.
I know Catholic do not adhere to sola scriptura mike and they think their traditions are the same as the apostolic traditions.
But what if their traditions are not the same? The Pharisees thought that their traditions were on equal grounds as the scriptures also, But what did Jesus have to say about that. I worry you place to much faith in man brother because I have witnessed that when people do that and the one they placed their faith in falls they fall right along with them.
If the scripture does not mean what it say mike please tell me what you think it means? Everyone I have ever asked this off only says it cannot mean what it says but never tell me what they think it means
No; but when one dies and all is revealed, then faith is no longer possible to attain or necessary. This is simply definitional. It's not that a believer "loses faith" when He dies and comes face to face with Christ; but rather that his faith is fulfilled by vision.
Do those saints who have died and are in the presence of God have "faith" that they will one day live in God's presence? No! It has already been achieved. Faith has given way to the Beatific Vision.
You are only looking at it as it concerns self mike, when I die and go on to be with the lord I will not be giving up on my faith in him to be able to save all of humanity, to fulfill his mission.
Catholics do not adhere to Sola Scriptura. Scripture and Tradition are on equal footing as Scripture itself is a Tradition.
The Catholic view is that doctrine should be based on both Scripture and the Apostolic Tradition.
I didn't use the term "isolated scripture", and I'm not sure what you mean by that. My argument is simply that that Scripture ("Savior of all, especially those that believe") doesn't mean what you think it means.
Do these scriptures also not mean what they say?
Jhn 4:42 - And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
1Jo 4:14 - And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son the Saviour of the world
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