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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans
You just contradicted your point though. Children don't have the cognitive ability to decide one way or another, so there really isn't a way to suggest that they are atheists either. Their ability to think and to understand is forming everyday, but as babies it's not quite there enough to decide something as complex as a deity. The problem with your argument is you are operating under the premise that atheism doesn't have a set of beliefs and assuming it's just a default of sorts, which is not true. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, to become an atheist, you have made a conscious choice, which again derives from a set of beliefs.
Atheists have NO belief. Period.
I made no conscious choice to be an antitheist; I never swallowed the kaka that was presented in school when the fairy tales in the bible was read in grade school.
In fact I thought they were cool stories, just like Hansel and Gretel. I always knew it was fluff.
Atheists have faith in something. They are no different than any other system of beliefs. They can't prove there isn't a god no more than we can prove there is one. Their beliefs are completely based on faith and that is why you are starting to see more of them practice certain religious-like things such as having services, fellowship with other atheists, having certain speakers that they follow.
Your capacity for psychological projection is quite amazing.
No. Antitheists have no faith belief. They may understand science, reason or secular constructs, but it is not built on nonthinking faith.
So science proves that there is no god? Please show me this earth-shattering evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3
BTW, extraordinary claims, which the idea of any sentient, all powerful invisible entity is, requires not only proof, but extraordinary proof.
Nice try, but the real question again is, how do you prove that a god does not exist? If you believe it's factual that god doesn't exist, then evidence should support this.
So science proves that there is no god? Please show me this earth-shattering evidence.
Hint: it's the same earth shattering "evidence" that there is no Santa Claus. In other words, a lack of any real evidence for Santa Claus. Do you still believe in the Easter Bunny because it hasn't yet been proven false?
Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans
Nice try, but the real question again is, how do you prove that a god does not exist? If you believe it's factual that god doesn't exist, then evidence should support this.
Your attempt to shift the burden of proof onto the skeptic is a common tactic. I have no proof that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. Nonetheless there is no reason to consider belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
So science proves that there is no god? Please show me this earth-shattering evidence.
Nice try, but the real question again is, how do you prove that a god does not exist? If you believe it's factual that god doesn't exist, then evidence should support this.
It is only up to those who make the claim to provide the evidence for said claim. You are asking to prove something which is not as an argument for the existence of something.
I was born into a Christian, church-going family. Attended Sunday school since I was little and did so through most of high school. Was confirmed at a Lutheran Brethren church, though didn't attend youth group or any other extraneous Christian groups.
I do remember when I accepted Christ, however. I was probably 4 or 5, and I don't know whether it was because I heard a Sunday school lesson about it, heard a sermon, or what, but I felt compelled to give my life to Christ one day after church. I went into my room, shut the door, and sat down against the wall and prayed that Jesus would come into my heart and forgive me of my sins - the typical prayer a new believer makes. It's hard to say now because that was so long ago (I'm 30 now), but I still feel like I really wanted that change and wasn't pressured into it by my parents, a pastor, a Sunday school teacher, or anyone else. I legitimately wanted to accept Christ and prayed the best I could for such a young age. I consider myself changed by the Holy Spirit since that time and believe I'm saved.
As I got older, I considered myself strong and knowledgeable in my faith (I really wasn't), and strived to maintain a relationship with God. I was really private about it and never really shared it with anyone, except at confirmation or Sunday school. After confirmation, I started to resent Sunday school and church and felt really judged by what I'd call the Bible-Thumper, ultra-Churchy kids. They had a holier than thou type of attitude and I always thought they looked down on me because I didn't have a fire for Christ like they did. I didn't want to go to youth group, or volunteer for Habitat for Humanity, or go on missions, or witness to others, or whatever was popular for a young Christian to do at the time. I had no passion for Christ - he was my private savior that I spoke to in prayer, that I revered, but I didn't want to expose myself as a Christian in front of non-religious people and face scrutiny. So, I was afraid of being judged by Christians (fake, overzealous, or legitimately kind and loving), and by being judged by non-religious people who might think I'm a Bible-thumping freak or overly churchy. I wanted to be cool, to fit in, and to just be normal. So began my almost 10 year walk away from God.
It wasn't until my 20's that I finally resolved I was just going to ignore or reject God altogether. I was intelligent, I was strong, I didn't need some fairy tale man in the clouds watching my every move and judging me as "evil" because of it. I had morals, which, I guess were somewhat inspired by Christianity, but I was a man of the world and wanted worldly things. I wanted to have sex when I wanted without consequence. I wanted to smoke, drink to excess, look at porn, watch R-rated movies, swear, hate, get angry - I wanted to LIVE! God was a nuisance and counter-productive to my lifestyle and only made me feel bad and guilty about my choices. Why would I want to feel guilty all of the time? What kind of life is that? God is the bad guy! What kind of God would let bad things happen to good people, or flood the earth, or let the holocaust happen, etc? Not a God I wanted to worship, that's for sure!
So, I started ignoring God (from about ages 22 through 27). I was finally free of those chains - or so I thought. I eventually started feeling anxious all of the time. Lonely, depressed. I worried about everything to the point that my hands literally started shaking for no reason one day. I turned to meditation, started reading everything I could in self-help books. I bought a zeta touch stone (look it up on Google) that was supposed to create peace and calm in my body by rolling it around in my hands and on pressure points. I bought a stress-ball for every room in my house and work. I drank, a lot. Whiskey and wine wer my constant companions after work. I read books on witchcraft and wicca, and genuinely considered trying to cast some spells. What a joke! I binged on Netflix, video games, food, cigarettes, partying... Whatever would fill the void I felt in my lonely, empty life. I had everything I wanted or needed, so why was I still a shell of a person? Why was I so weak and tired all of the time? Why, why, WHY?
It wasn't until a friend of mine started talking to me about her Bible study group and church that I realized something was wrong in my life (I truly believe this was through grace and the Holy Spirit). I really resented her "talks" for a long time, almost 2 years. I hated hearing about her stupid church. I hated God - I wished she would just shut up and be normal like everyone else. But she wasn't normal, and she wouldn't stop telling me about her love for God. I finally started thinking about Him again after I hit rock bottom, and realized something profound:
I had spent years ignoring God, but He never ignored me. He never forgot about me. Even when I was away from him, I felt his unrelenting presence looming in the distance. He was what was missing in my life, and I somehow knew it, even though I didn't readily want to admit it to myself or my friend. But, I needed Him and his love, so I gave in. I forgave all the Christians who had hurt me and scared me away from faith. I forgave the people I befriended during my downward spiral that led me further and further to destruction. I forgave myself, as I believed God had forgiven me. This part was the hardest.... I hated myself and who I had become, even though I was living my worldly standards. I treated people with respect and was genuinely a nice guy, but that was just who I presented myself as. I was truly a dark, despicable, shallow, and hollow person on the inside, and I knew it. God was the change I needed to overcome those labels I'd given myself.
Today, I consider myself a child of God and have re-dedicated my life to His Glory. I know I'm not perfect, but I strive to know God through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and accept the gift of salvation given to us by Jesus Christ. None of these things are really new to me, so to speak, as I accepted Christ and the Spirit as a child, but they have since totally renewed me and my outlook on life. I love God and am so thankful for his unyielding love for me. Life is good!
As believers we all have our journeys that we have gone through in order to get to where we are today. One thing that makes this so interesting is that we can have such a very different path than the next person does. My question for you today is were you raised from birth or at least a young impressionable age to become a Christian or did you eventually become a Christian later on after some life experiences? Also of the people around you who are believers, do you find that most of them were raised to be believers or did they eventually become one later in life?
Christian is not a religion. What religion are you?
I was raised by an agnostic father and a Christian mother. My younger brother & I were raised in the church.
When we became adults, my brother left the church, and best I can tell, he is a non-practicing Christian/agnostic. I, on the other hand, decided Christianity made sense, and have remained a practicing believer. I now work as a music minister in my local church.
I feel like I have always believed, but I came to an understanding (as a teen) of what salvation in Christ means.
Hint: it's the same earth shattering "evidence" that there is no Santa Claus. In other words, a lack of any real evidence for Santa Claus. Do you still believe in the Easter Bunny because it hasn't yet been proven false?
Okay so what is your definition of an atheist? What makes an atheist an atheist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
Your attempt to shift the burden of proof onto the skeptic is a common tactic. I have no proof that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. Nonetheless there is no reason to consider belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
It's not a tactic, it's just dealing with reality. Everybody on this earth that has a mind to think and make choices has a set of beliefs.
It is only up to those who make the claim to provide the evidence for said claim. You are asking to prove something which is not as an argument for the existence of something.
That's straight up logical fallacies 101!
Not true. That does not apply here and here's why. Again I ask, what is atheism? What is the definition of atheism in plain words?
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